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NoobMan
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-05-01 12:51:24 UTC
Fozzie said they are fixing XL-SMA's.

XL-SMA's for all the pleebs!

Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
mechform
#2 - 2014-05-01 13:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
Without a complete re-vamp to pos mechanics? How can this be?

Boballeelujah, our sacrifices and e-rants have not been in vain!!

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#3 - 2014-05-01 13:34:33 UTC
INB4BrokenPOS'es
Spootimus Maximus
Lepton Industries
#4 - 2014-05-01 13:45:53 UTC
mechform wrote:
Without a complete re-vamp to pos mechanics? How can this be?

Boballeelujah, our sacrifices and e-rants have not been in vain!!


Didn't you hear? CCP likes to add stuff without fixing what's actually wrong, but when they try and fix stuff they just fix minor issues and ignore the rest!
mechform
#5 - 2014-05-01 14:00:49 UTC
What i kept hearing from the CSM and the CSM canditates is that CCP is hesitant in changing anything to do with pos's because the code is in very bad shape, and its has to be created from scratch and basically not something they want to tackle at this moment.

So this message that they are changing something minor in the pos system is not consistent with the message that the CSM has been giving the players as to why CCP is slow in tackling the pos system.

So either, Fozzie is trololo, or Noob is trololo. Or we can translate CCP's lack of moving forward in the pos system because it currently does not affect enough players to give them any kind of financial incentive to dedicate a single person to create a new pos system.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
RudinV
Sons Of Mother's Friend
Can i bring my Drake...
#6 - 2014-05-01 15:30:48 UTC
Removing standing requirements in high sec will add some guys to complainers, hopefully it will be enough to start being visible problem for CCP.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#7 - 2014-05-01 17:42:06 UTC
RudinV wrote:
Removing standing requirements in high sec will add some guys to complainers, hopefully it will be enough to start being visible problem for CCP.

This.

There will be much consternation and gnashing of teeth.

I'm right behind you
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#8 - 2014-05-01 18:11:56 UTC
mechform wrote:
What i kept hearing from the CSM and the CSM canditates is that CCP is hesitant in changing anything to do with pos's because the code is in very bad shape, and its has to be created from scratch and basically not something they want to tackle at this moment.

So this message that they are changing something minor in the pos system is not consistent with the message that the CSM has been giving the players as to why CCP is slow in tackling the pos system.

So either, Fozzie is trololo, or Noob is trololo. Or we can translate CCP's lack of moving forward in the pos system because it currently does not affect enough players to give them any kind of financial incentive to dedicate a single person to create a new pos system.

Considering that the only thing that is changing is the size of the module, and not the underlying code behind it, your entire "troll CCP" point goes out of the window.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
mechform
#9 - 2014-05-01 18:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
to change the size of something is editing the code, lol. But as usual we have those that miss the point.

I never troll.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#10 - 2014-05-01 18:52:13 UTC
mechform wrote:
to change the size of something is editing the code, lol. But as usual we have those that miss the point.

I never troll.



there is a big difference in changing 1 field in a input file and changing the underlying code.
mechform
#11 - 2014-05-01 19:03:38 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
Yes, and if you add the amount of time spent planning, approving, importing, testing, and pushing the '1 input file' for every small fix CCP has done on the pos system, a single entry level game developer could have revamped the pos system.

Maybe not an entry level, but any of the developers at CCP. Again, my point being that until it affects a larger number of players, i don't think we will see much traction on fixing anything that 'really' needs fixing.

The only thing the large SMA fix will prevent is corp theft, which is obviously such a big issue in the pos system right now. (unless your director is a brick) then i think the XLSMA is the least of your worries.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#12 - 2014-05-01 20:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Adoris Nolen
I don't think most of the devs at CCP actually write the code. They design & balance the game.

Edit: I think that most if not all the pos code is based on npc rat code. I know the guns are for sure.

Edit 2: I also wouldn't be suprised if gate guns/station guns also use the same code/references.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#13 - 2014-05-01 22:21:38 UTC
The way fozzie,greyscale and xhagen explained it when someone asked is there actual work being done on the pos-revamp:

-The pos is tied with the corp roles. Xhagen wants to go through the whole idea of corps and alliances and what they mean and fix those, so we can get better corp roles, which in turn are used for the new pos-system (meaning the alliance will be made into a real thing and might also mean that characters can be in multiple corporations)

-The new pos-system will most likely be done with the mobile structure-codebase. CCP Started with the most simple idea of a thing they can put into space and have interactions with (mobile depot) if you move from that to the more complex things, you'll end up with something that uses the corp roles, uses alliances and corps etc etc...

So no, there's no actual work being put towards POS-revamp directly, but they are building the pieces to make the revamp easier to do.

Wormholer for life.
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#14 - 2014-05-01 22:50:02 UTC
mechform wrote:
to change the size of something is editing the code, lol. But as usual we have those that miss the point.

I never troll.

Changing the mesh size, and the collition radius of any one item in game has no effect on the underlying code, that dictates it's properties.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#15 - 2014-05-01 23:35:52 UTC
Im proud of them. It only took them 1 year to find the line about XLSMAs and make them smaller. we only suggested that 2 days after the patch hit.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
mechform
#16 - 2014-05-02 03:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
Erufen Rito wrote:
mechform wrote:
to change the size of something is editing the code, lol. But as usual we have those that miss the point.

I never troll.

Changing the mesh size, and the collition radius of any one item in game has no effect on the underlying code, that dictates it's properties.


To save you from actually reading my previous posts in thread,I have included my response to a similar point made by a couple other posters who failed at reading. You throw these words that you probably learned from the top 10 hits in google, but i don't think you actually know what they mean or how they apply to pos mechanics.

Erufen Rito wrote:

Considering that the only thing that is changing is the size of the module, and not the underlying code behind it


Robert Morningstar wrote:
here is a big difference in changing 1 field in a input file and changing the underlying code.


mechfrom wrote:

Yes, and if you add the amount of time spent planning, approving, importing, testing, and pushing the '1 input file' for every small fix CCP has done on the pos system, a single entry level game developer could have revamped the pos system.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
mechform
#17 - 2014-05-02 03:52:41 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
Wander Prian wrote:
......So no, there's no actual work being put towards POS-revamp directly, but they are building the pieces to make the revamp easier to do.


This is almost the exact excuse I used in middle school as to why i was not doing my homework, lol

I have no doubt they are working to make the revamp easier, what business wouldn't when they have a broken system? However the speed and timing at which they will tackle this investment, will always be motivated by the number of players that are affected. And it will have to be larger than just the player base that choose to conduct their entire eve play out of pos's.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
RudinV
Sons Of Mother's Friend
Can i bring my Drake...
#18 - 2014-05-02 07:43:52 UTC  |  Edited by: RudinV
What's the problem with alliance bookmarks than? I'm just wondering who and how decide what is important and what is not?cose it takes quite a lot of time for all suggestions/meetings/approvings/ actual coding, I'm not against in burocracy in general, I just wanna point that, if the problem/solution goes throught a lot of steps besides actual solving it adds problems/mistakes at each step. Fixing internal procedures for this will fix a lot of problems at once.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#19 - 2014-05-02 07:48:25 UTC
The problem with alliance bookmarks is that alliances don't really exist. There's just one flag in the DB that indicates if a corporation belongs to an alliance. Corporations on the other hand are "real" and have properties and code connected to it. CCP first needs to make alliances a real thing before they can add alliance bookmarks.

Wormholer for life.
Meytal
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-05-02 12:16:54 UTC
mechform wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
......So no, there's no actual work being put towards POS-revamp directly, but they are building the pieces to make the revamp easier to do.


This is almost the exact excuse I used in middle school as to why i was not doing my homework, lol

I have no doubt they are working to make the revamp easier, what business wouldn't when they have a broken system? However the speed and timing at which they will tackle this investment, will always be motivated by the number of players that are affected. And it will have to be larger than just the player base that choose to conduct their entire eve play out of pos's.

It is very likely that POSes and Stations share code, or that code was duplicated between them. Stations could/should be implemented as special cases of POSes. Fixing up POS code then most likely means fixing up Station code as well. Even if these changes didn't affect every single player in EVE, there is enough of a significant impact to their prized playerbase of Nullsec from POSes alone that they want to be careful.

So far, it looks like CCP is doing the POS rewrite correctly. I'd much rather wait for them to get it right, as long as they continue to show progress as they have, than have them dump some new steaming pile of code in our laps a la new-Inventory.
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