Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You're actually missing the whole point. I'm in no way looking for CCP to 'force people in front of my guns.' Trust me they do that well enough without any help from CCP. No, what I'm looking for is giving industrialist players positive reinforcement for engaging in pvp during a war. If they still choose not to do so, then I have no problem with them staying docked and avoiding a fight.

However with sufficient motivation some of them would choose to undock and engage in pvp. What I'm looking for is very different from what you say I'm looking for.

I agree those ideas are just bad and go against everything I stand for. Believe it or not.

I actually disagree, the logi pilots will just move into the corp instead of going suspect. Sure now you can see them coming, but you still won't be able to break them without sufficient dps.

I don't disagree that neutral RR is problematic for smaller groups, hell if I saw logi on field I'd have to bug out myself. I'm just not %100 sure that fixing the neutral RR part will prevent the same "we won't bother undocking because they have logi" situation, which is unfortunate.

I still think you're really not getting the point of this thread.

I would hope that if there was positive incentive to fight that many of those people would seek to learn at least rudimentary basics. A long time ago with a different character my corp was dec'd, we had a new member who had been playing eve for one week. We handed him as many condors as he needed and kept handing him more as he lost them. I think he ended up loosing 12-15 during the war. He had a blast doing it and the whole thing cost us a couple of million. He also learned valuable lessons about tackle, transversal, turret tracking and speed tanking. Did we feed kills to the enemy? Sure, did we care? Nope. BTW, that was an indy corp going up against a merc corp.

I think one of the biggest barriers to pvp is that people think that they have to win to enjoy it, and that they have to fly expensive ships in order to win. A swarm of cheap ships would be a nightmare to fight for smaller pvp corps. Specially if the hostiles keep undocking new reinforcements.

It's fun when you feel you are improving or at least present a challenge to the enemy. If you get your ass handed to you every single time and can't even percieve you are improving, then fighting the war will not be fun at all. If the target predict he will always end up like that, where does his motivation to fight come from? He can't even expect fun, much less success. In that case, his logical choice is to not fight and cut his own loses. He might be wrong on his actual aptitute at dealing with PvP but from his point of veiw, he is still right because he is indeed cutting his own loses.

Read few pages.. got the general idea.

At any rate what I'm thinking about current wardec system is that it's flawed from the ground.
Think about it... low and null and WH are ffa pvp wise no one cares...

HS supposed to be empire controlled space with "middle finger" concord policing everyone to play nice inside.
So then comes WarDec system and allows for any corp to pay X isks to make concord disapear and freely shoot without retaliation on other corp for Y amount of time.

In theory the REASONS for such an act are as said earlier mix of mercs hired for the job, competition, grudge to beinged attacked by gankers corps and such.
In practice who will declare wardec? failed pvp'ers which are so failed they have to attack indy players with no combat skills at all. Don't give me the crap they can train for 3 days to be in t1 tackle ship cause fleet of 20 miners in tackle frigs won't survive vs fleet of skilled trained pvp'ers.
When I wanted to PVP I grabbed my stuff joined FW corp based in lowsec and went pewpew as much as I could. While at it I've found even matched competition from corps dedicated to pvp as well! I didn't went to attack indy players without any combat ships.
So what war deccer's are actually are in practice is failed gankers which don't have the balls to suicide gank properly and instead the declare wardec so they can bring their bigger ship without concord popping them out.


INSTEAD I think war dec should be a serious thing with some kind of grief\retaliation mechanichs which allow to dec only if some reason has come up...
Let's say your X% of corp members are mining in Y system then with them same amount of miners from Corp Z mine as well. Due to the competition each corp can declare war dec on each other. Under Reason for dec tab they will state "mining competition".. then when the war dec is over if X amount of miners from the aggressive corp would not be mining in that contested system for at least same time as the wardec was they will be declared griefers falsely declaring wardec and as punishment they will lose concord protection for week.
This is small example of reason, options and punishment in the most basic way... I can give you many more in dept specific examples.

In one post you managed to call war dec'ers "failed pvp'ers", skilled and trained, and also failed gankers. That seems to me inconsistent.

In reality, I've done FW, with varying levels of success, I've done bloc 0.0 warfare (with moderate success), and I've done high sec ganking. Only failed two ganks so far, and have numerous success'. In addition to those things, I've also done HS war dec'ing. I guess I fall into ALL of those groups?

Either way, your post is hardly relevant to the topic at hand.

players can dec for any reason they like, this includes griefing, its a sandbox game.

In my experience, high sec wardecs have more reason behind them than nullsec wars and FW (which are boredom and pew because pew/role-playing). but a lot of the time the attackers in a war dec dont tell their targets why they have been decced.

In "skilled trained" I meant they trained the skill books and ranked them high enough to use proper high end combat ships with all the benefits from Eve skill system not that they are skilled themselves as players.

Why do you wardec people then? you find it fun to shoot people which don't want to fight or can't pilot proper combat ship?
If you failed suicide ganks does that made you pissed off and instead of investing 1 use max gank ships you invest in "shoot permit" from concord?
This is why you think you should **** people in combat pvp?
I find combat pvp in eve pretty dull by itself, without any reason behind it or some metgame background to it it's just dull hence I engage in it only when I'm extremly bored... But you as fan of such gameplay why not go and find prey worth the challenge instead of getting permit to attack people without skills to fly combat ships?

You just proved with your rant my point, you are trained skill wise (eve skill training 1-5 system.. ) to fly combat ships. You like to shoot people but yet you prefer to find easier prey to stroke your imaginary e-peen in order to compensate for something.

otoh shouldn't you reply to my post in its fullest and not just quote few lines? I gave an example of proper way to implement a mechanic of war decs in highsec without this griefing shenanigans. Also it does not make sense to have concord and empire police and all that if anyone can just pay some isks and ignore them completely for no reason! and at that if there was a reason to war dec and get concord out of the picture it should be something which will make the defender want to defend! in such way that if they are not capable to fight themselves skill wise they could hire mercenary group to do that instead.



With all due respect to sandbox even sandbox should have some kind of rules around it.... if you make area of space which is monitored and policed you shouldn't let anyone to pay the police not to interfere...
It's like in RL I'll pay the police ignoring me for shooting my neighbor just because he **** me off...
Due to the fact this is a sandbox game otoh war dec can be allowed but for a reason and not just pewpew permit.

And regarding your comment about why aggressor aggressor it simple... most of the time it will be corp of 8-20 pvp'ers attacking any corp with "indy\mining\casual" in its description.