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Question about Standing

Author
Tux Gallant
KOR Resources
#1 - 2014-04-30 20:12:13 UTC
My standing with Caldari is rather low at the moment and I wonder how far it can go before I can no longer trade in Jita (if it even works that way).

My challenge at the moment is I want high standing with Gallente and standings good enough for trade in Jita with Caldari. I notice that it seems doing missions for one group eventually lowers the other group and thus far has caused me a general decline in both.
Forest Archer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-04-30 20:58:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Forest Archer
There is no low standing that restricts trade but a low standing will result in faction police and militia personnel firing at you in Jita which is a 1.0 system the standing is -2.0


Also don't do missions that kill Caldari and Amarr that will limit damage to faction standing.

Correction -5.0 is when standings effect whether factions can fire upon you.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post

Tux Gallant
KOR Resources
#3 - 2014-04-30 21:10:59 UTC
Forest Archer wrote:
There is no low standing that restricts trade but a low standing will result in faction police and militia personnel firing at you in Jita which is a 1.0 system the standing is -2.0


Also don't do missions that kill Caldari and Amarr that will limit damage to faction standing.


I am painfully close to -2.0. Will CONCORD shot at me as well or is it a situation where I can get to the station as long as I dont dilly dally around
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#4 - 2014-04-30 21:34:50 UTC
train the skill diplomacy iirc to raise negative standings.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-04-30 21:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Hello and welcome to Eve.

Seems people get mixed up pertaining to personal security status and Faction standing. Hopefully this will help.



Players who attack others illegally without provocation will incur negative hits to their personal security status and if it's low enough will be attacked by Faction Navy NPC's when they enter systems that have high security levels.

Travel restrictions according to personal security status:

Players with -2.0 or lower will be attacked in 1.0 systems
Players with -2.5 or lower will be attacked in 0.9 systems
Players with -3.0 or lower will be attacked in 0.8 systems
Players with -3.5 or lower will be attacked in 0.7 systems
Players with -4.0 or lower will be attacked in 0.6 systems
Players with -4.5 or lower will be attacked in 0.5 systems

Players with -5 or lower security status are considered outlaws and can be attacked by players anywhere without CONCORD intervention.

To repair negative personal security status, players can destroy Pirate NPC's as well as turn in Security Tags to raise their status.

More info here.

--------------

Now about Faction standings, you won't be attacked by the Faction Navy NPC's until you get -5.00 or lower Faction standing. As for the -2.00 Faction standing, all that does is cut off access to agents level 2 and higher for that Faction.

When doing missions, if you accept regular encounter missions against Empire Factions you will incur negative Faction standing hits for aggression / ship kill.

When you complete a Storyline mission offer, you gain positive standing with that faction and it's allies while at the same time incur negative Faction standing with their enemies.

If you complete a Storyline mission offer that's against an Empire Faction, then you get both of the above mentioned aspects happening.

To compensate for that, train up the skill Diplomacy. Just remember that it's a temporary fix and if you continue to do Anti-Empire encounter missions, you will go below -5.00 Faction standing.

If that happens, check out 'The Plan' which can also enable positive standings with all Empire Factions.

Good luck to you and may you have a long and rewarding career.



DMC
Tux Gallant
KOR Resources
#6 - 2014-04-30 22:21:34 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Hello and welcome to Eve.

Seems people get mixed up pertaining to personal security status and Faction standing. Hopefully this will help.



Players who attack others illegally without provocation will incur negative hits to their personal security status and if it's low enough will be attacked by Faction Navy NPC's when they enter systems that have high security levels.

Travel restrictions according to personal security status:

Players with -2.0 or lower will be attacked in 1.0 systems
Players with -2.5 or lower will be attacked in 0.9 systems
Players with -3.0 or lower will be attacked in 0.8 systems
Players with -3.5 or lower will be attacked in 0.7 systems
Players with -4.0 or lower will be attacked in 0.6 systems
Players with -4.5 or lower will be attacked in 0.5 systems

Players with -5 or lower security status are considered outlaws and can be attacked by players anywhere without CONCORD intervention.

To repair negative personal security status, players can destroy Pirate NPC's as well as turn in Security Tags to raise their status.

More info here.

--------------

Now about Faction standings, you won't be attacked by the Faction Navy NPC's until you get -5.00 or lower Faction standing. As for the -2.00 Faction standing, all that does is cut off access to agents level 2 and higher for that Faction.

When doing missions, if you accept regular encounter missions against Empire Factions you will incur negative Faction standing hits for aggression / ship kill.

When you complete a Storyline mission offer, you gain positive standing with that faction and it's allies while at the same time incur negative Faction standing with their enemies.

If you complete a Storyline mission offer that's against an Empire Faction, then you get both of the above mentioned aspects happening.

To compensate for that, train up the skill Diplomacy. Just remember that it's a temporary fix and if you continue to do Anti-Empire encounter missions, you will go below -5.00 Faction standing.

If that happens, check out 'The Plan' which can also enable positive standings with all Empire Factions.

Good luck to you and may you have a long and rewarding career.



DMC


Yes most of this information I already knew what I was unclear on was Factional standing for getting in and out of Jita.
With that said I think Diplomacy might be my temporary answer, although to be fair I am farther away from -5.0 then I am -2.0

Long term though I fear I will not be able to have good standing with both Calrdari andGallente because many of the missions you have to blow up the others ships.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2014-04-30 22:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
If you accept missions that require you to shoot at Caldari faction, your Caldari standing will plummet quite rapidly. It doesn't take very long to reach -5.0 this way.

Most people seem to regret letting their Caldari faction drop below -5.0 so the time to act is now before that happens. It is also harder to correct standing that is below -2.0

It is possible to have positive standing with all factions, if you want that.

My goal is simply to have good standing with only two factions, and have the other two higher than -2.0. I have good standing with Amarr and Caldari, and I take steps to avoid Gallente and Minmatar from getting upset with me:
* Caldari: +8.60
* Amarr: +7.23
* Minmatar: +0.10
* Gallente: -0.56
I do Caldari and Amarr regular & storyline missions, plus Sisters of EVE (SoE) storyline missions for Gallente (hurts Ammar and Caldari a very tiny amount), and the SoE epic arc for Minmatar every three months (has no impact on any other standing).

I have over 5 years of missions under my belt, and I'm still welcome in all hisec space.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-04-30 22:49:08 UTC
That's why most players work with several agents at a time, more or less.

When you decline an Anti-Empire encounter mission from your initial agent and he offers you another Anti-Empire encounter mission, just close the offer via the little 'X' at the top of the box and go work with another agent. That offer will still be listed in your journal with which you can check the cool down timer via mission details.

When the 4 hr cool down period is done, go back to the initial agent.


DMC
Tux Gallant
KOR Resources
#9 - 2014-04-30 22:53:46 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
If you accept missions that require you to shoot at Caldari faction, your Caldari standing will plummet quite rapidly. It doesn't take very long to reach -5.0 this way.

Most people seem to regret letting their Caldari faction drop below -5.0 so the time to act is now before that happens. It is also harder to correct standing that is below -2.0


This is exactly what I thought. Confirms a lot. I think I am going to move my stuff out of Gallente space and do a lot of Caldari missions or just dump high sec all together and join large corp/alliance
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-04-30 22:58:15 UTC
Tux Gallant wrote:
Long term though I fear I will not be able to have good standing with both Calrdari andGallente because many of the missions you have to blow up the others ships.

Actually, you can fairly easily. If you're doing missions, simply decline the ones that want you to destroy ships from one of the four empires. Use the faction standings repair plan linked above to...repair your faction standings. I was once -9 to Amarr and it was very inconvenient for me as the wormhole I was in had an exit into Amarr space that would have been pretty handy for me except for the amarr navy messing with me. Using that faction standings repair plan and stopping with shooting anarr empire ships fixed that. Amarr love me now. I'd probably get an invitation to the Empress' spacegarden party. It's all good with both the Gallente and Caldari, too, now (and Minmatar). You should check out "the plan".
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2014-04-30 22:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Tux Gallant wrote:
I think I am going to move my stuff out of Gallente space and do a lot of Caldari missions or just dump high sec all together and join large corp/alliance

There are Caldari corporations in Gallente space, as well as Minmatar space, that you can do missions for.

Example:
* Caldari Business Tribunal
* CBD Corporation
* Expert Distribution
* Ishukone Corporation
* Kaalakiota Corporation
* Modern Finances
* Nugoeihuvi Corporation
* Wiyrkomi Corporation

http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/universe/station_search/
Tux Gallant
KOR Resources
#12 - 2014-04-30 23:11:00 UTC
I had 0 on diplomacy and in the time of this forum string I got all my 'bads' to 'good' except for caldrai which is really close to 0 now diplomacy is now at 2 so this seems to be the solution.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2014-04-30 23:14:45 UTC
Tux Gallant wrote:
I had 0 on diplomacy and in the time of this forum string I got all my 'bads' to 'good' except for caldrai which is really close to 0 now diplomacy is now at 2 so this seems to be the solution.

It is a temporary solution if you keep shooting at Caldari Blink
Tux Gallant
KOR Resources
#14 - 2014-04-30 23:34:02 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Tux Gallant wrote:
I had 0 on diplomacy and in the time of this forum string I got all my 'bads' to 'good' except for caldrai which is really close to 0 now diplomacy is now at 2 so this seems to be the solution.

It is a temporary solution if you keep shooting at Caldari Blink


true
Arthul Omanid
Castile y Leon Enterprises
#15 - 2014-05-01 03:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthul Omanid
Tux Gallant wrote:
I am painfully close to -2.0. Will CONCORD shot at me as well or is it a situation where I can get to the station as long as I dont dilly dally around


I'm curious about this as well. If someone were to drop below -5.00 standing with a given empire, would that prevent one from being able to dock and trade in that faction's trade hub? Usually when I see someone enter one of these systems with bad faction standing, I see a message at the gate mention that the individual has some time to get away before they start shooting. I don't know how that would affect the station guns though. And would you be killed instantly after undocking?

Secondly, if you had bad faction with the Minmatar, for example, but you raise your faction with the Brutor tribe, couldn't you still get good refine rates, etc. at Rens?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2014-05-01 04:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Arthul Omanid wrote:
Tux Gallant wrote:
I am painfully close to -2.0. Will CONCORD shot at me as well or is it a situation where I can get to the station as long as I dont dilly dally around


I'm curious about this as well. If someone were to drop below -5.00 standing with a given empire, would that prevent one from being able to dock and trade in that faction's trade hub? Usually when I see someone enter one of these systems with bad faction standing, I see a message at the gate mention that the individual has some time to get away before they start shooting. I don't know how that would affect the station guns though. And would you be killed instantly after undocking?

Secondly, if you had bad faction with the Minmatar, for example, but you raise your faction with the Brutor tribe, couldn't you still get good refine rates, etc. at Rens?

Since I'm well qualified to answer both questions (I have -9.89 security status and around -8 with the Amarr Empire)...

1a. You can never be denied docking by any NPC station in the game regardless of standing. The only exception to this is if you are in Faction Warfare and the faction hostile to you owns the FW low-sec system (all high-sec and non-contestable system stations can still be docked in though).

Player made and owned stations (in null-sec) are a different matter altogether. They can deny docking to anyone who is neutral, hostile, or all of the above.


2a. Having low security status and low faction standing have almost the same result; the Faction Police (not the Navy which is reserved specifically for hostile Faction Warfare people) will chase you... growing ever more responsive and powerful the higher the security rating of the system is.
-4.5 and lower cannot enter 0.5 space without a response.
-4.0 and lower cannot enter 0.6 space without a response.
-3.0 and lower cannot enter 0.7 space without a response.
-2.0 and lower cannot enter 0.8 space without a response.
-1.0 and lower cannot enter 0.9 space without a response.

Typically you can avoid the Faction Police by flying anything faster than a nimble cruiser. Industrials... forget it. Even a cloaking system will not work.
In terms of damage... you can somewhat tank Police in 0.5 systems in a battlecruiser (not recommended)... in 1.0 systems we're talking about thousands of damage per second with scrams, webs, and Ewar (see: just don't do it).

Now here is where it gets interesting. Faction Standing applies only towards a specific faction. Security Status is universal between all empires.
And beyond that... having -5.0 or lower security status make you an "outlaw"... meaning that you can be legally attacked by other players... anytime, anywhere. Even when in a pod. Low Faction Standings will not do this.

As for CONCORD... they do not care. They will only respond when you have a criminal timer (i.e. you have shot a ship with no aggression, suspect, or outlaw flags in high-sec).


3a. Finally... Corporation Standings are a bit separate from Faction Standings. You can have very high standings with a corporation whose faction is completely hostile to you. So yes, you can get really good refine rates even though the NPCs outside want to shoot you.
However I do suggest you read some DEV Blogs about the coming changes to industry.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#17 - 2014-05-01 04:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
You can always dock in a NPC station regardless of standings with the station NPC owners.
When docked, the only thing that's negatively affected by FACTION standings is the amount of the broker fees imposed on trades made inside the station.
NPC corp standings however affect both "we take" refine rates and trade broker fee amounts.
*note: broker fees are NOT affected by diplomatic skill levels, only base standings are taken into account


A "pretty bad standings" character (a barely realistic very bad case would be something around -9 with Caldari State and -2 with Caldari Navy) would pay a whooping ~2.55% broker fee in "Jita44" (~1.91% with L5 broker relations) which would pretty much eliminate most (if not all) station trading profit (since you also pay 1.5% base sales tax, lowerable to 0.75% with Accounting L5).
That's a grand total of nearly 4.6% total tax burden on station trades in that particular station even with maxed trade skills (and with margins as low as 5% on a lot of products in busy hubs, there's barely any point in bothering).

A "true neutral" character (null standings with Caldari State and Caldari Navy) and no levels in Broker Relations will have to pay 1% broker fees on all "duration" buy orders or sell orders (does not apply to "instant" buy/sell orders) placed in "Jita44", which can be reduced to 0.75% with L5 in Broker Relations.
That's ~2.25% total tax burden with max trade skills for station trading. Not great, but workable.

A "max standings" character (close to +10 with both Caldari State and Caldari Navy however only pays ~0.25% base broker fees in "Jita44", which means a mere ~0.1875% with L5 Broker Relations.
That's only a 1.125% total tax burden with max trade skill levels. It doesn't get better than this.

P.S. See also: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Thoraemond/eve-market-order-broker-fees-20110417.png
Arthul Omanid
Castile y Leon Enterprises
#18 - 2014-05-01 04:58:02 UTC
Thank you, ShahFluffers and Akita T. That answered my question perfectly. Smile
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#19 - 2014-05-01 16:01:36 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Typically you can avoid the Faction Police by flying anything faster than a nimble cruiser. Industrials... forget it. Even a cloaking system will not work.
In terms of damage... you can somewhat tank Police in 0.5 systems in a battlecruiser (not recommended)... in 1.0 systems we're talking about thousands of damage per second with scrams, webs, and Ewar (see: just don't do it).

Note that you will get a surprise in systems where CONCORD is the sovereign faction.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#20 - 2014-05-01 17:42:48 UTC
I believe that little "quirk" was patched out awhile ago. Ahhh... suiciding your own fleet of "outlaws" into CONCORD systems... good times...
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