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Dev Blog: Team Up: Industry Work Teams

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Shinya Shazih
Markarian Society
#421 - 2014-04-30 18:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Shinya Shazih
For a while I was hoping Teams would mean Player Teams.

All these changes do nothing for Coöperation within corporations, they just focus on solo play.

Wasn't this a Massive Multi Player Game?

For the past few years in Eve I have never hired NPC's to do stuff for me. I always hired players....
Gamer4liff
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#422 - 2014-04-30 18:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gamer4liff
Dirk MacGirk wrote:

or it can be like PLEX: just because it's in the game doesn't mean you can afford it or have some unalienable human right to access.

As one of the few people left who won the T2 BPOs they produce with in the original lottery, I'm well aware of privilege, undue or not. We should avoid creating more systems that are too easy for those with wealth and power to wall off and claim as their own at the expense of others trying to start out or break in.

Not much point implementing a new core element to a manufacturing system if it's out of the reach of the majority of manufacturers, after all.

A comprehensive proposal for balancing T2 Production: here
Ludacrys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#423 - 2014-04-30 18:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ludacrys
To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.

They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel
They are allowing for people to spend money on teams that give up to 5% ME, why would i spend ISK on something everyone can use? the answer is you wont unless you also control the system (0.0, WH, etc)
Outposts on top of that have another 5% ME

Not to mention the changes to ore and mineral compression

CCP wants people in 0.0 but i think the problem is the blobbing system that always benefits the people with power, CCP really needs to boost asymmetrical warfare or people will never go to 0.0 unless they are renters or pets
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#424 - 2014-04-30 18:46:10 UTC
Ludacrys wrote:
To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.

They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel
They are allowing for people to spend money on teams that give up to 5% ME, why would i spend ISK on something everyone can use? the answer is you wont unless you also control the system (0.0, WH, etc)
Outposts on top of that have another 5% ME

Not to mention the changes to ore and mineral compression

CCP wants people in 0.0 but i think the problem is the blobbing system that always benefits the people with power, CCP really needs to boost asymmetrical warfare or people will never go to 0.0 unless they are renters or pets

how in the blazes is doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel, something highsec doesn't use, a highsec nerf and a nullsec boost

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#425 - 2014-04-30 18:51:56 UTC
As head of pubbie management, Weaselior, I was rather hoping you would be the one able to translate that for me.

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#426 - 2014-04-30 18:54:03 UTC
Ludacrys wrote:
To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.

They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel
They are allowing for people to spend money on teams that give up to 5% ME, why would i spend ISK on something everyone can use? the answer is you wont unless you also control the system (0.0, WH, etc)
Outposts on top of that have another 5% ME

Not to mention the changes to ore and mineral compression

CCP wants people in 0.0 but i think the problem is the blobbing system that always benefits the people with power, CCP really needs to boost asymmetrical warfare or people will never go to 0.0 unless they are renters or pets



high sec nerf, nullsec boost? Let's see here...

50% increase in the consumption of jump fuel? Check - hurts nullsec more since the need to jump back and forth is more.

Teams that require mass numbers of players to bid in a combined way to attract teams to a single system? Check - bigger population in hisec allowing for more people to combine their bids.

Ore and minerals? Check: most construction ores/mins come from hisec

Seems pretty biased towards nullsec to me.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#427 - 2014-04-30 18:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Two Words: Very Confusing.
Question
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#428 - 2014-04-30 19:01:34 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
(The end of auction message) lists the systems with the highest bid pools. When an auction ends, a notification is sent to those who made bids (both winners and losers), which includes a list of top contributing players to the system pool.
Laendra wrote:
but not a full list of winning bidders?
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Currently, it only lists top 5, to keep the notification from being very long in some cases. The intel gathering aspect of this is intended.

If you (CCP) intends for the "end of auction" message to leak useful intel, then I believe you need to tweak things a bit.

First, I don't think the end of auction message should be sent only to bidders. That just encourages people who want the intel, but don't intend to use the teams in that system, to place a bunch of 1 ISK bids. Maybe the end of auction information for the last X days ( 7 < X < 60 ) should be available for general perusal somehow.

Second, it is too easy to shield who the bidding industrialists are: they will simply use an unaffiliated alt to place the bid. So I think you're going to have to change the team bonus system so that only bidding characters get access to them.

Third, if you do change the team bonus system so that only bidders get access to them, then industrialists will place 1 ISK bids with their production alts, and place *winning* bids with an unaffiliated alt (so we're back to square one again). So I think that not only will the team bonus system need to be limited to bidding characters, but also the amount of team bonus will need to be in proportion to the amounts bid.

MDD
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#429 - 2014-04-30 19:05:55 UTC
Ludacrys wrote:
To me this seems like a blatant high sec nerf, nullsec boost.

They are doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel
Weaselior wrote:
how in the blazes is doubling the cost of jump freighter fuel, something highsec doesn't use, a highsec nerf and a nullsec boost

I had the same reaction. Plus, it's a 50% increase in jump drive fuel consumption, not a 100% (doubling). Cite:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4526547#post4526547

Frothing seems to impede logic.

MDD
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#430 - 2014-04-30 19:06:00 UTC
If you would take the seconds of your life it takes to sign your posts, MDD, to instead think about what you are typing - in what circumstance would anyone wish to conceal their identities from bidding?

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#431 - 2014-04-30 19:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: MailDeadDrop
Seith Kali wrote:
If you would take the seconds of your life it takes to sign your posts, MDD, to instead think about what you are typing - in what circumstance would anyone wish to conceal their identities from bidding?

I suppose the simplest answer would be those circumstances where the bidder doesn't wish it known that he/she bid.

The slightly more complex answer could be in those circumstances where, if the winning bidder's identity were known, they might then become the object of unwanted attention, such as war declarations to their player corporation.

As for my signatures, why do you care how I spend my time? Are you trying to get me to play the forums like you play them? (By the way, that's a rhetorical question; no answer is actually expected.)

MDD
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#432 - 2014-04-30 19:13:02 UTC
Do you have any details on where and how the teams will spawn for auction?

For instance, will they always be in High Sec hubs; leaving low sec, null sec, and wormholes always at a disadvantage? Or do you plan on team auctions spawning randomly throughout all stations and outposts in New Eden without any regard to security status?

Member of #tweetfleet @stalence // Templis CALSF // YouTube Channel
Elayae
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
#433 - 2014-04-30 19:20:33 UTC
Very interesting possibilities with the teams, I like it. Big smile

Can we expect (ships) crews in the future with a similar-ish system like this?

-Ela
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#434 - 2014-04-30 19:20:34 UTC
So if you want to bid on a team, you must do so on every single alt you want to use that team with? If you want war-deccers the option of picking juicy targets, would a better system not offer griefers the ability to use locator agents to see who is actually employing teams at any given time?

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#435 - 2014-04-30 19:20:53 UTC
tbh as i read the blog post it strongly reminded me on FW mechanics. Where one set of people is crying "please donate i want to farm more" and the other set doesn't care about farming so it doesn't donate (conflict of interests). However it might work here better since there is no public "teams" chat channel :P and the difference between a bad team and a perfect team is probably not as extreme as the difference between FW tier 1 payout and tier 5.

Its more of an optimization than a reward multiplier. It might even spawn a new profession "nomadic industrialist" ;)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#436 - 2014-04-30 19:26:57 UTC
Seith Kali wrote:
If you would take the seconds of your life it takes to sign your posts, MDD, to instead think about what you are typing - in what circumstance would anyone wish to conceal their identities from bidding?


This is Eve. Tell me a situation where you would want to not conceal your identity when iskies are on the line. Big smile

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Banko Mato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#437 - 2014-04-30 19:31:00 UTC
Aaaarrggggh, threads grow too damn fast -.-

A little idea for the mentioned "those 2.5% material reduction will not affect my BPCs that only require like less than a dozen per ingredient" issue:

How about changing the final result of material modifiers from floor(magic math) to ceil(same magic math) ?
Meaning that when there is at least one external factor that reduces materials (greater than 0%), it would always at least reduce those materials by 1. Of course with extra constraints, like never get below 1 of each mat after applying the modifier, or the modifier originating from a BPs ME level should remain in the current form.

Might be worth thinking about, or might be utter crap, but just came to my mind while reading the first few pages.
Shinya Shazih
Markarian Society
#438 - 2014-04-30 19:35:37 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated?


They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50.


So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole?
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#439 - 2014-04-30 19:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Are there any plans to allow DUST players to invade eve stations and kill the manufacturing teams?


If there are, I'm not aware of them. Though we did discuss housing the teams in a structure in space that can be shot at.


I've been trying to follow these changes but there's only so much a lowly PVPer can understand about industry...but this caught my attention. I take this idea didn't go through, though I wonder why? I always want more to shoot at, esp. nerds doing research in space etc.

Also, I'd just like to say, it's good that null gets a boost--it should more than it appears, even. Low sec indy needs a serious boost to, since it is in some places much more dangerous than null indy. However, what really needs a nerf is not being in space. If I can't shoot it why not and please may I?
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#440 - 2014-04-30 19:37:34 UTC
Shinya Shazih wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
If teams have a minimum cost per Jump and teams can be used in Wormholes, how are bids from WH's calculated?


They're assumed to have a fixed jump distance of 50.


So a number of teams spawn every day, what prevents me from hiring all of them into my wormhole?

The size of your wallet.

MDD