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Crime & Punishment

 
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Harrassement in Chat

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Carnia Astrael
#1 - 2014-04-29 19:39:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Carnia Astrael
I had an unfortunate experience in chat today with rudeness crossing over the line to obscene insults and personal attacks. It appears the Mods will not enforce the rules..they gave an ambivilant response with no real reply. I will be moving on and leaving EVE most likely.

A game with no standards of conduct is not a game it is a disaster waiting to happen.

ADDENDUM: if you read this topic you may be surprised and even shocked as I was that my being the victim of flaming and trolling abuse in the Local Chat and reporting it here caused ME to be the target for four pages of mostly very negative and aggressively hostile posts. It still puzzles me a bit and was a sad experience. here is a portion of my final post as I now move on from this discussion look for my post on Page FOUR,...and good luck ..if you are the victim of abuse in the game PLEASE report it to the GMs thru Support right away, the topic to report under is at the very end of the topic list for Support Tickets, Harassment.

Good luck and lets try to keep EVE a fun game

Quote:
I had no idea I would receive so much abuse here and personal attacks on my sensibilities, standards and right for a safe game environment as promised clearly by the EULA. It has continued now for four pages and may continue on. It is not pleasant to be so targeted and shamed in a public forum for no apparent reason. I have not committed a crime, or taken any right away from anyone, i have asked for the standards promised by the game to be upheld. I took action on that basis and am reassured that the moderators understand and will do what they decide to do. They do not report on results or actions. And I did not reveal the content of the attack to support that privacy.

Many here seem to feel empowered to blame me for caring for decency. That appears to be happening in our society as well. I cannot and do not hope to deal with it on that scale. But I do feel it is our responsibilty as mature adults who have inherited our culture to protect standards of decency in public areas, what you do in private and in your own personal communications is totaly your right as many here have stated. What happens in a public space where no one controls what may happen is based on Trust and agreed upon standards. Such standards forbid certain subjects due to their extreme nature and the upsetting imagery and nature of their content. I think maybe the ease of access of the internet and modern media has made such standards seem impossible. but I will not surrender my concern and care for this. I will not abandon the game or my beliefs. You are free to do as you wish but when you attack me and aggressively criticize me for asking for safely in a game that has clearly stated standards of play then you yourself are violating the rules against Trolling and flaming and being needlessly hurtful.

It has not been easy to endure this. I guess i have kept with this rather than run away because i think it may help some others who feel the same way and who may have been brutalized or bullied in the same way and were afraid to speak out.

I urge and encourage all who encounter speech and chat that violates the EULA rules to report it immediately. I don't think it is useful to talk about it here on the forums from the results of my effort :) but do please know some of us are doing our best to keep the game clean and as nice as it can be. Have fun, I plan to, and please think carefully about what you say and do, for even in a virtual fictional world, it has consequences and impact and you can cause both joy, fun and pain. Try to choose wisely. Take care and I wish you all well.

I was and am in the end very impressed by the very high quality of moderation by the Admins and GMs in this game it is superb and I am sorry that they have to deal with this kind of issue but I thank the stars they are here and are doing their best to give us a safe (not from Ganking and pirates )..... game to enjoy.

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tiewan
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-04-29 19:49:39 UTC
Honestly it is rare that I encounter people like that.

But the moment someone says something I find unacceptable.. I just block them.
Its fast and easy.
Christy D Floyd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-04-29 20:00:30 UTC
Carnia Astrael wrote:
I am not sure of the rules in EVE on chat ..and decency. I am used to traditional rules of decent quality chat but wanted to ask here.

today i had the unfortunate experience of rudeness bordering on harrassment and insult in the local chat, from a relatively new player. They were using rather foul language and discussing what would be considered obscene topics in the open local chat and when I requested that we keep the chat polite they decided to up the impact and started targeting me for lewd and rude questions and comments.

I blocked them in the game which i see is our only option..and thought to ask here what the rules are on such things. If there are NO standards of such ..i may not choose to stay in EVE long, i have no time or patience for such rude behaviour esp when there may be minors around. If we do not set standards there will be none.

thanks and have a nicer day. i hope to. Going to stay out of EVE for a bit . dont want to be a target for a troll. they tend to get bored if their target does not play back.


You have obviously not been on comms yet have you? Seriously if you are such thin skinned that adult chat bothers you I would not recommend EVE for you as it contains +18yr old chat and comms. I heard Goons comms can get downright scary sometimes damn I wish I could eavesdrop on their comms sometimes.

OH Welcome to EVE HTFU.

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-04-29 20:02:03 UTC
I am not sure how to reply to this without being an asshat, but here goes:

This game is not for children. At its core, its a nasty game, about stealing, cheating, telling lies, and using every method available to put yourself ahead of the rest.

With that being said, you have a few choices here.

1) Ignore the offensive player. Seriously, who cares if they want to rant and rave in local. Some corps even wardec mouthy local talkers.

2) *my personal recommendation* Man up and dont let "Bad words" cause you to stop having a good time. Your values are not going to be shared by everyone. I am a fan of free speech, and if i wanna say ****** up stuff, Its my right to do so. Fortunately for you and those that share the absolute fear of dirty language, this brings me to point 3..

3) EvE players are generally an intelligent bunch. This game takes a while to learn, and this tends to dissuade the average kiddie-mmo type crowd from sticking around long. The guy who you saw in local was most likely a trial account, and thought it would be lolzsaucewtfbbq to cuss people out in local. He wont be staying, so dont worry.

4) You can contact space lawyer, Ripard Teg, and have him blog about your event, and obtain a ban for the player that hurt your feelings. Because thats what we do now.

Honestly, if you are easily offended by things that shouldnt offend you... this may not be your game. However, if you can look past the fact that your values are YOUR VALUES and not ours, you could have a great time with a great game.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Carnia Astrael
#5 - 2014-04-29 20:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Carnia Astrael
I appreciate the kind responses, as for the ones that is less than that, yes they ARE my values and they ARE the values of society thank goodness. It is true that in the modern world of today such values of decency and respect are eroding in some areas, but I will Never surrender the field to the "let them do what they want" cop out. I have worked to maintain respect and decency in many on line games for i work in the field of game development at the highest level and i will continue to support such standards. I have not previously had a chance to study and research EVE and I will keep an open mind and heart but I will NOT surrender on the issue of decency in shared recreation and communication. In private chat that is just fine, and com's the same. But in a public chat window there should be standards and levels of respect, and to be a personal target of attacks from creeps is not something to be hoped for.

Thanks for the thoughts shared, I am not surprised to hear tolerance suggested, but I will NOT tolerate such behaviour if there is any way that speaking up can get it curbed.

Such a player should be reprimanded by a GM immediatly and banned if it repeats. If we do not support standards there will be none and chaos leads to entropy NOT freedom.

As for the use of HOTFU in a chat with me I do not appreciate such rude slang attacks, and I request that you never address me in a thread again or i will report you for Abuse. I will not tolerate such rude behaviour in print or in life thank you very much. I have no intention of Hurrying Up to Accepting rude and unkind comments in any form or format. thank you.

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Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#6 - 2014-04-29 20:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tah'ris Khlador
Carnia Astrael wrote:
yes they ARE my values and they ARE the values of society thank goodness. It is true that in the modern world of today such values of decency and respect are eroding in some areas, but I will Never surrender the field to the "let them do what they want" cop out.


You clearly do not understand how value systems work. Please examine Wikipedia for the definition of values. Personal values will reflect your own code if you will. Cultural values, as in the EVE culture on the whole, will then reflect a more generalized system. You seem new, and yet you are already presuming to understand the culture of EVE as being inherently decent.

NEVER GIVE UP. NEVER SURRENDER.

Carnia Astrael wrote:
I have worked to maintain respect and decency in many on line games for i work in the field of game development at the highest level and i will continue to support such standards.


Two things. First, no one cares about your background. Second, I figured someone at the "highest levels of game development" might be able to capitalize the letter "I". Or at least use the built in red squigglys like I do. (Coincidentally the squigglys tell me that squigglys is not a word.)

Carnia Astrael wrote:
But in a public chat window there should be standards and levels of respect, and to be a personal target of attacks from creeps is not something to be hoped for.


There are general standards in place, but they mainly extend to illicit photos and racially charged language. Do you feel you are a victim of bullying? Good news! You've already found the block button! Your next option is the petition button! Both of these are in fact more regulatory than real life conversations where you have the right to be offended but less you can do about it.

Carnia Astrael wrote:
I will NOT tolerate such behaviour if there is any way that speaking up can get it curbed.

Such a player should be reprimanded by a GM immediatly and banned if it repeats. If we do not support standards there will be none and chaos leads to entropy NOT freedom.


You have such great authority to uphold your statement of zero tolerance. I quiver in the face of your divine retribution.

Carnia Astrael wrote:
As for the use of HOTFU in a chat with me I do not appreciate such rude slang attacks, and I request that you never address me in a thread again or i will report you for Abuse. I will not tolerate such rude behaviour in print or in life thank you very much. I have no intention of Hurrying Up to Accepting rude and unkind comments in any form or format. thank you.


Believe it or not, this community owes you nothing. Please join a corp soon so you may experience the joys of either a wardec or an AWOX, both of which will cause great joy for me, and probably a "harassment petition" from you.

♥ Tah'ris Khlador
Prophet of Lord Malakai

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Carnia Astrael
#7 - 2014-04-29 20:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Carnia Astrael
Sorry to have raised this topic it appears this community does not on the majority recognize decorum or courtesy in a game. I will not be replying further.

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Danalee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-04-29 21:37:38 UTC
Carnia Astrael wrote:

As for the use of HOTFU in a chat with me I do not appreciate such rude slang attacks, and I request that you never address me in a thread again or i will report you for Abuse. I will not tolerate such rude behaviour in print or in life thank you very much. I have no intention of Hurrying Up to Accepting rude and unkind comments in any form or format. thank you.


CCP (devs) would very much like to have a word with you, good sir/madam.

This bait thread is very nice, I think I'll see what happens.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Pix Severus
Empty You
#9 - 2014-04-29 21:47:20 UTC
As above, even the devs tell players to HTFU. I think you need to revise whether this game is for you or not.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#10 - 2014-04-29 21:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
HTFU is Eves theme song, I suggest the OP takes it to heart.

Eve is very much a social experiment that deals with the darker side of human nature, while I don't condone the use of explicit language in local, it happens, deal with it like an adult, not a child. It's certainly not the worst thing that can happen while playing Eve, can't wait to see the OPs tears the first time somebody unconsensually violences their space canoe.

Eve local chat is pretty clean when you compare it to corp chat or IRC

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dalto Bane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-04-29 22:25:04 UTC
Carnia Astrael wrote:
I am not sure of the rules in EVE on chat ..and decency. I am used to traditional rules of decent quality chat but wanted to ask here.

today i had the unfortunate experience of rudeness bordering on harrassment and insult in the local chat, from a relatively new player. They were using rather foul language and discussing what would be considered obscene topics in the open local chat and when I requested that we keep the chat polite they decided to up the impact and started targeting me for lewd and rude questions and comments.

I blocked them in the game which i see is our only option..and thought to ask here what the rules are on such things. If there are NO standards of such ..i may not choose to stay in EVE long, i have no time or patience for such rude behaviour esp when there may be minors around. If we do not set standards there will be none.

thanks and have a nicer day. i hope to. Going to stay out of EVE for a bit . dont want to be a target for a troll. they tend to get bored if their target does not play back.


This is actually one of the few things I will petition, if it becomes bad enough. I am not one to believe in censorship, but there is a line, and since I can not directly punch someone in the face, I might as well use the resources available to me. Lol

Drops Mic
Pubbie Spy
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-04-29 22:30:29 UTC
Carnia Astrael wrote:
I appreciate the kind responses, as for the ones that is less than that, yes they ARE my values and they ARE the values of society thank goodness. It is true that in the modern world of today such values of decency and respect are eroding in some areas, but I will Never surrender the field to the "let them do what they want" cop out. I have worked to maintain respect and decency in many on line games for i work in the field of game development at the highest level and i will continue to support such standards. I have not previously had a chance to study and research EVE and I will keep an open mind and heart but I will NOT surrender on the issue of decency in shared recreation and communication. In private chat that is just fine, and com's the same. But in a public chat window there should be standards and levels of respect, and to be a personal target of attacks from creeps is not something to be hoped for.

Thanks for the thoughts shared, I am not surprised to hear tolerance suggested, but I will NOT tolerate such behaviour if there is any way that speaking up can get it curbed.

Such a player should be reprimanded by a GM immediatly and banned if it repeats. If we do not support standards there will be none and chaos leads to entropy NOT freedom.

As for the use of HOTFU in a chat with me I do not appreciate such rude slang attacks, and I request that you never address me in a thread again or i will report you for Abuse. I will not tolerate such rude behaviour in print or in life thank you very much. I have no intention of Hurrying Up to Accepting rude and unkind comments in any form or format. thank you.


I am offended. Offended, I say!

Can you please give me whatever you have left when you inevitably quit EVE in disgust because people don't show you ~respect~ in chat and take all your stuff?
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-04-29 22:42:25 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
This game is not for children. At its core, its a nasty game, about stealing, cheating, telling lies, and using every method available to put yourself ahead of the rest.
I never quite get that argument.

Sure, EVE is about being the villain. But using foul language doesn't make you a bad guy, it just makes you appear immature. Being a villain is about your actions, not your words. You can be classy and evil. And you usually gain more with a kind word and a gun than a gun alone.

Of course, foul language used as a combat tactic to effect irrational, self-detrimental in-game behavior is something completely else and an useful tool in ones arsenal. (Which might or might not apply to the OP's situation.) But there are players who use it all the time for no apparent reason. And justifying pointless rudeness with "HTFU, I'm a bad boy," is just pathetic.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#14 - 2014-04-29 23:51:11 UTC
Quote:
I am used to traditional rules of decent quality chat but wanted to ask here.

Probably the first error you made was thinking those standards apply here.

EVE is a **** fest full of people who want nothing more than to violence your spaceships, pod you, insult you, rob you, or in some other way decieve and hurt you. And for the most part all of this is fully sanctioned.

But this harsh and unforgiving nature, and these universal risks, is also what makes EVE so exciting for many people. Just watching the show and avoiding the risks yourself is sometimes just as much fun as perpetrating them. But this world isn't for everyone, and it's not unusual for some people to balk at the environment here and move on to another game. Rage quit threads are pretty common.

What you do is totally up to you and your tastes in gaming. But yeah ... it's gonna get a lot worse than some insults in local. Blink

Also, welcome! You'll eventually find not everyone here in EVE is a **** ****.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-04-30 00:42:40 UTC
Thomas Builder wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
This game is not for children. At its core, its a nasty game, about stealing, cheating, telling lies, and using every method available to put yourself ahead of the rest.
I never quite get that argument.

Sure, EVE is about being the villain. But using foul language doesn't make you a bad guy, it just makes you appear immature. Being a villain is about your actions, not your words. You can be classy and evil. And you usually gain more with a kind word and a gun than a gun alone.

Of course, foul language used as a combat tactic to effect irrational, self-detrimental in-game behavior is something completely else and an useful tool in ones arsenal. (Which might or might not apply to the OP's situation.) But there are players who use it all the time for no apparent reason. And justifying pointless rudeness with "HTFU, I'm a bad boy," is just pathetic.


Hold on there fella. I never said HTFU, im a bad boy. If you will read my posts on this forum, most of them are devoid of any type of excessive cursing, so please dont try to classify me as a mouthy doucherocket who spams local with profane jibber. The above quote of my reference to this not being a childrens game is in direct reference to OP's statement about minors. If you are concerned about your kids seeing "bad words" (oh no! because they will never see it anywhere else!) then dont let them watch.

The growing belief in the real world is that you have some sort of right not to be offended. Please show me the law. This is ****, and I refuse to let the political correct clown crap that goes on in real life seep into my hobby. What happens if I am offended that YOU are offended? Whatever would we do then? Its a joke.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
ViRtUoZone
Commie Bunny Pirates
#16 - 2014-04-30 01:08:10 UTC
Carnia Astrael wrote:
I appreciate the kind responses, as for the ones that is less than that, yes they ARE my values and they ARE the values of society thank goodness. It is true that in the modern world of today such values of decency and respect are eroding in some areas, but I will Never surrender the field to the "let them do what they want" cop out. I have worked to maintain respect and decency in many on line games for i work in the field of game development at the highest level and i will continue to support such standards. I have not previously had a chance to study and research EVE and I will keep an open mind and heart but I will NOT surrender on the issue of decency in shared recreation and communication. In private chat that is just fine, and com's the same. But in a public chat window there should be standards and levels of respect, and to be a personal target of attacks from creeps is not something to be hoped for.

Thanks for the thoughts shared, I am not surprised to hear tolerance suggested, but I will NOT tolerate such behaviour if there is any way that speaking up can get it curbed.

Such a player should be reprimanded by a GM immediatly and banned if it repeats. If we do not support standards there will be none and chaos leads to entropy NOT freedom.

As for the use of HOTFU in a chat with me I do not appreciate such rude slang attacks, and I request that you never address me in a thread again or i will report you for Abuse. I will not tolerate such rude behaviour in print or in life thank you very much. I have no intention of Hurrying Up to Accepting rude and unkind comments in any form or format. thank you.



This is a game where I can say whatever I want 99% of the time. Basically if it's not a personal threat I can say it. While you might be willing to leave because of this there are a thousand others that are willing to leave should it change.
Dalto Bane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-04-30 01:17:44 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Thomas Builder wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
This game is not for children. At its core, its a nasty game, about stealing, cheating, telling lies, and using every method available to put yourself ahead of the rest.
I never quite get that argument.

Sure, EVE is about being the villain. But using foul language doesn't make you a bad guy, it just makes you appear immature. Being a villain is about your actions, not your words. You can be classy and evil. And you usually gain more with a kind word and a gun than a gun alone.

Of course, foul language used as a combat tactic to effect irrational, self-detrimental in-game behavior is something completely else and an useful tool in ones arsenal. (Which might or might not apply to the OP's situation.) But there are players who use it all the time for no apparent reason. And justifying pointless rudeness with "HTFU, I'm a bad boy," is just pathetic.


Hold on there fella. I never said HTFU, im a bad boy. If you will read my posts on this forum, most of them are devoid of any type of excessive cursing, so please dont try to classify me as a mouthy doucherocket who spams local with profane jibber. The above quote of my reference to this not being a childrens game is in direct reference to OP's statement about minors. If you are concerned about your kids seeing "bad words" (oh no! because they will never see it anywhere else!) then dont let them watch.

The growing belief in the real world is that you have some sort of right not to be offended. Please show me the law. This is ****, and I refuse to let the political correct clown crap that goes on in real life seep into my hobby. What happens if I am offended that YOU are offended? Whatever would we do then? Its a joke.

As long as its within the confines of the EULA/TOS, I completely agree.

Drops Mic
B Raan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-04-30 01:44:59 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Eve is very much a social experiment that deals with the darker side of human nature,


Erica Dusette wrote:
EVE is a **** fest full of people who want nothing more than to violence your spaceships, pod you, insult you, rob you, or in some other way decieve and hurt you. And for the most part all of this is fully sanctioned.


while I won't state that either of these statements are wrong, they make it sound like bad villainous characters are the only ones that exist in the EVE universe, and this just isn't true.

There are those who provide assistance to others free of charge, teachers that provide learning opportunities, tight knit care bear corps, and even anti-pirate corps.

I think people find it easier to play a bad guy, as they never have to be beholden to any principals, but EVE is far from being just a bunch of thugs and assholes.

And OP, nice try at trolling ;)
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#19 - 2014-04-30 02:04:00 UTC
The problem OP is actually you.


If you draw an invisible line in the sand regarding what is offensive and what isn't - it is your own fault that you are offended when someone crossed that invisible line.

The person you believe caused the offense did not create the boundary - you did. Take some responsibility for your own actions and either remove your boundary - OR grow up enough to know that someone elses boundary is not in the same place as yours and simply ignore them.



TBH - If words on a screen upset/effect you in any way at all - then you have bigger issues to work out.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Carnia Astrael
#20 - 2014-04-30 02:28:40 UTC
Sorry to see such immaturity among the players and I am quite sad to see the decay in our society that cannot support basic courtesy. I am not quitting in disgust, i am researching the game and fear it will not have a good review. I plan to request ESRB change EVE's status to a more restricted one to protect some standards of decency. If the Mods themselves cannot see the need for this, then the entire game is indeed corrupt. Have fun. You can continue this discussion without me for I dont see any sign that any of you have any understanding of the reasons for courteous behaviour in a game.

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