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Finding good fights: FW vs. piracy
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Denuo Secus
#1 - 2014-04-28 21:02:13 UTC
Hi,

I consider to join FW. Main motivation is PvP. Earning ISK with PvP is another reason. But I'm not sure if I'd just cut down my PvP by doing that. Atm I do low sec piracy with my combat char. On paper it seems obvious that piracy leads to more fights simply because in FW I can factor out two whole militias as opponents.

But when thinking about it a bit more I think FW could lead to a lot of fights too. Simply because I'm now a 'valid target'. As pirate, some ppl just run from me just because I'm blicky or simply not interesting because I don't steal their systems ^^ Also: fights on stations and gates in small/fast/lightly tanked ships.

My question to ppl who did both: what's your experience? Any hints?

Thanks!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#2 - 2014-04-28 21:12:23 UTC
You can fight and make isk at the same time in FW. No need to "take a break and PvE." Great for guys without secondary income (like high sec mining alt).
Ding Bang Oww
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-04-28 22:07:01 UTC
Well like any place else in FW low sec the only fights you find are generally the ones where your opponent at least thinks they have the upper hand. They won't enter your plex unless they have friends waiting at the gate to blob you or judge their ship to be vastly superior to yours; and if you are the one poking around the plexes they just cloak or run unless they have friends waiting or have a better ship than you or more SP etc.
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#4 - 2014-04-28 22:20:04 UTC
From my experience .


Beeing a pirate roaming Fw warzone will get you more fights cause you won't be on one side fighting the other , you will have both sides to play with but it will make it harder to smell the incoming ganks and also you can't benefit from the lp payout to fund your pvp habit .


Beeing in fw you will have less opponents to shoot but will benefit from making money .

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#5 - 2014-04-29 03:47:17 UTC
I think Starbuck 05 pretty much summed it up.

Here is my experience from when I used to pvp in low sec.

For Pvp, if you mainly fight in plexes pirating is better. Not only do you almost double your targets, you can have several bases so you don't need to spend so much time reshipping.

If you want to gate camp or fight on gates then militia might be better. I rarely would do either so this wasn't really a benefit.

As far as money, when I was in fw I never really wanted to wait out a plex timer after I fought someone anyway. No one is likely to show up since most militia will not even know you are there.

If I wanted to spend time making money I would get in a stealth bomber and run fw missions for the winning side. That is still what I I would do I started using an alt for that.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6 - 2014-04-29 14:00:32 UTC
Starbuck05 wrote:
Beeing in fw you will have less opponents to shoot but will benefit from making money .

My corp and guys in my corp rack up tons more kills than pirate groups every month. I think it's because we're able to be "on station" 23/7 available for fights.
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#7 - 2014-04-29 14:54:00 UTC
We ofc im not saying its not posible to rack up more kills..i was just saying in general/avarage person

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#8 - 2014-04-29 14:56:26 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Starbuck05 wrote:
Beeing in fw you will have less opponents to shoot but will benefit from making money .

My corp and guys in my corp rack up tons more kills than pirate groups every month. I think it's because we're able to be "on station" 23/7 available for fights.



What do you mean "on station" available for fights?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#9 - 2014-04-29 16:18:24 UTC
Cearain wrote:
What do you mean "on station" available for fights?
I mean docked up semi-afk waiting for a notification system to tell me where a warp core stabbed farmer is located.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#10 - 2014-04-29 16:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Starbuck05 wrote:
We ofc im not saying its not posible to rack up more kills..i was just saying in general/avarage person

Was just pointing out that our guys get more kills than pirates - not a "possible to do" thing, an "we actually do" kind of thing. Might have something to do with undocking and being available for fights nearly 95% of the time - instead of spending a significant portion of our time PvE'ing.
Beardon
CRIME CRIME
#11 - 2014-04-29 17:12:24 UTC
FW wins out for me personally because it's very sustainable ISK wise, and it gives you more of a purpose to fight. You get occasions where you need to go out and fight that I just don't really see arising in pirate groups as often. Examples being assaults on certain systems, or even just dealing with roaming gangs. The fleets can be based around objectives that are instrumental to getting fights, and there's a general feeling of having a grander purpose in the militias (For the State!), as lame as that sounds.

There are exceptions to the rule no doubt, and I'm not trying to make claims for anyone other than myself, I just feel like sustainability + sov/militia based reasons to motivate fights = a great time. I certainly don't feel limited by the amount of targets that I have available to me, I'll say that much.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#12 - 2014-04-29 17:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Starbuck05 wrote:
We ofc im not saying its not posible to rack up more kills..i was just saying in general/avarage person

Was just pointing out that our guys get more kills than pirates - not a "possible to do" thing, an "we actually do" kind of thing. Might have something to do with undocking and being available for fights nearly 95% of the time - instead of spending a significant portion of our time PvE'ing.


When you divide your kills by the number of your members you aren't doing what you claim.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_ext_id=98187159

http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=289313

But you guys do get more isk. Its just a matter of whether you want to waste time sitting at a button when almost no one knows you're even there, let alone wants to pvp.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
SmokinJs Arthie
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#13 - 2014-04-29 17:44:22 UTC
Cearain wrote:
When you divide your kills by the number of your members you aren't doing what you claim.
When our top 4 have more kills then your entire corp I think it backs up the claim.

Quote:
Its just a matter of whether you want to waste time sitting at a button.
That's what alts are for. It also helps you find more targets. It's like you're in 2 places at once. Lol

Quote:
almost no one knows you're even there
Everyone in system knows you're there.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#14 - 2014-04-29 17:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
I guess 600+ kills a month for several months gives me no credibility in this matter.

Being in a corporation that (as of this time) has more kills than any other corp under 2k members (besides Sniggwaffe who have over twice our numbers and are ahead by 300 kills) in the last 90 days means nothing either. (15k kills in 90 days, btw).

https://zkillboard.com/ranks/recent/killers/

Another FW corp that is rocking the killboards is Black Fox Marauders at 11k+ kills over the last 90 days. I'm sure their kills/player is pretty far up there since they have fewer than 50 members.

NOT BAD FOR SITTING ON BUTTONS WAITING FOR PEOPLE TO SHOW UP AND FIGHT.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#15 - 2014-04-29 17:54:57 UTC
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Everyone in system knows you're there.

But they weren't notified, so they won't undock. Somehow these pirate types are able to find fights without a notification system, but us militia guys can't.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#16 - 2014-04-29 17:59:07 UTC
Just to add:

FW pilots get to fight other FW corps.
They also get to fight pirates.
They also get to BE pirates, if they want.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#17 - 2014-04-29 17:59:43 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Starbuck05 wrote:
We ofc im not saying its not posible to rack up more kills..i was just saying in general/avarage person

Was just pointing out that our guys get more kills than pirates - not a "possible to do" thing, an "we actually do" kind of thing. Might have something to do with undocking and being available for fights nearly 95% of the time - instead of spending a significant portion of our time PvE'ing.


When you divide your kills by the number of your members you aren't doing what you claim.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_ext_id=98187159

http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=289313

But you guys do get more isk. Its just a matter of whether you want to waste time sitting at a button when almost no one knows you're even there, let alone wants to pvp.


We are closer to your number of members so probably a better comparison

http://blfox.eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=326312

JUSTK is recruiting
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2014-04-29 18:28:19 UTC
I simply posted a pirate corp that gets about 50% more kills per player than XGs faction war corp. If we assume they are more active than XG's corp or that XG's corp is full of people that don't know what they are doing then fair enough the numbers don't mean much.

I unsubbed for about 6 months and haven't even logged this character in since I started again about a month ago. I have no idea how active Black Rebel Rifter Club is. If I am any indication then its not that active. And I would add you should all be very grateful that the Black Rebel Rifter Club is resting!

That, of course, is the problem with just looking at kills. But if we assume Justified Chaos is as active as the pirate corp I linked (and by the way I notice many of the pilots from the Black Rebel Rifter Club are in there and the founder of both corps is the same) then the pirates are getting about 50% more kills per player.

Beyond that XG's line drawing is arbitrary. (more kills than any corp under this many members except for this corp and they don't count because this and etc etc etc.)

Anyway my point is Starbucks point is valid. Sure some corps will be better than others but on average that's the question.

IMO if you are good and you are active I think you will get more kills (especially quality kills but that is way too subjective) as a pirate.

XG tries to say they don't have to spend any time with pve. Well this is what it comes down to. Lets say you go in a plex and kill someone after they were on the button for 1 minute. If its a small plex that means you can either sit there for 11 minutes and close it or you can continue looking for fights. If you sit there you probably won't get another fight as no one knows your there. (assuming you don't need to dock up to repair - and if you do you may have to go several jumps if you are in faction war to do that. Not to mention the reshipping time. As a pirate you can base anywhere - no worries. FW you need to travel more and often move if you get kicked out.) If you move on you won't get the lp anyway. So you will be no better than a pirate with about 40% fewer targets in fw low sec.

Sure there might be times when you find a timer that only has a minute or 2 and then you can wait out the lp but its not that common.

Seriously just paying 15 dollars for a plex will yield about 35 top notch fully fit t1 frigates that cost 20 million each. That's a pretty expensive fit frigate. How much is your time worth to sit at a button instead of moving on for the next fight?

Even if you don't want to sell plexes you can have a couple of alts in stealth bombers run a round of missions and make 2 billion isk in about 4-5 hours.

But whatever. I was both a pirate and in miliita I found I could get more good fights by being a pirate.

Now yes if in the militia you knew who was in plexes near you then you would likely get more fights in militia than as a pirate. But until that happens I think your better off as a pirate.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#19 - 2014-04-29 18:59:29 UTC
And then you keep pulling numbers comparing a 20 man corp to one more than five times as large and saying it proves your 50% rule (but you don't try comparing your numbers to BLFOX with the same total kills divided by members math).

That or you could look at top killers for each corp as they are usually the most active PVPers:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=321570&m=3&y=2014&view=pilot_kills

http://blfox.eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=326312&m=3&y=2014&view=pilot_kills

http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=289313&m=3&y=2014&view=pilot_kills

The FW pilots are doing fine I think when it comes to getting kills :p

JUSTK is recruiting
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#20 - 2014-04-29 19:31:59 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I simply posted a pirate corp that gets about 50% more kills per player than XGs faction war corp. If we assume they are more active than XG's corp or that XG's corp is full of people that don't know what they are doing then fair enough the numbers don't mean much.

I unsubbed for about 6 months and haven't even logged this character in since I started again about a month ago. I have no idea how active Black Rebel Rifter Club is. If I am any indication then its not that active. And I would add you should all be very grateful that the Black Rebel Rifter Club is resting!

That, of course, is the problem with just looking at kills. But if we assume Justified Chaos is as active as the pirate corp I linked (and by the way I notice many of the pilots from the Black Rebel Rifter Club are in there and the founder of both corps is the same) then the pirates are getting about 50% more kills per player.

Beyond that XG's line drawing is arbitrary. (more kills than any corp under this many members except for this corp and they don't count because this and etc etc etc.)

Anyway my point is Starbucks point is valid. Sure some corps will be better than others but on average that's the question.

IMO if you are good and you are active I think you will get more kills (especially quality kills but that is way too subjective) as a pirate.

XG tries to say they don't have to spend any time with pve. Well this is what it comes down to. Lets say you go in a plex and kill someone after they were on the button for 1 minute. If its a small plex that means you can either sit there for 11 minutes and close it or you can continue looking for fights. If you sit there you probably won't get another fight as no one knows your there. (assuming you don't need to dock up to repair - and if you do you may have to go several jumps if you are in faction war to do that. Not to mention the reshipping time. As a pirate you can base anywhere - no worries. FW you need to travel more and often move if you get kicked out.) If you move on you won't get the lp anyway. So you will be no better than a pirate with about 40% fewer targets in fw low sec.

Sure there might be times when you find a timer that only has a minute or 2 and then you can wait out the lp but its not that common.

Seriously just paying 15 dollars for a plex will yield about 35 top notch fully fit t1 frigates that cost 20 million each. That's a pretty expensive fit frigate. How much is your time worth to sit at a button instead of moving on for the next fight?

Even if you don't want to sell plexes you can have a couple of alts in stealth bombers run a round of missions and make 2 billion isk in about 4-5 hours.

But whatever. I was both a pirate and in miliita I found I could get more good fights by being a pirate.

Now yes if in the militia you knew who was in plexes near you then you would likely get more fights in militia than as a pirate. But until that happens I think your better off as a pirate.


Bittervet detected.
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