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Dev blog: The Price of Change

First post First post
Author
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-04-29 11:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Exciting and profitable times are ahead with the changes and improvements of Industry in EVE Online coming this summer!

After the announcement that industry and science slot limitation in New Eden is going to be completely removed, CCP Greyscale explains now that the costs off job installations will be dynamically adjusted. The more you are active in a system (compared to the global average), the higher the job installation cost will become - a more dynamic industry landscape with profitable opportunities and more power to the players is the result.

The new job installation pricing system is fundamental and takes into consideration many things such as Factional Warfare bonus, discounts from having multiple stations in the system, discounts on multiple runs and more.

Please all read CCP Greyscale's latest blog The Price of Change!

Feedback, constructive discussions and comments are most welcome here. Please remember that this is a big step for Industry in New Eden and that your constructive feedback counts and can make a difference!

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#2 - 2014-04-29 11:33:17 UTC
Link is broken.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#3 - 2014-04-29 11:33:21 UTC
Again, strap-in!

Can't wait for the final devblog about "teams" Big smile

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[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2014-04-29 11:38:35 UTC
5 blogs delivered, 1 to go Big smile

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#5 - 2014-04-29 11:39:38 UTC
That's going to be a massive ISK sink.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-04-29 11:40:22 UTC
Nice! these blogs are coming along fast. Exciting times.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-04-29 11:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
sweet baby jesus. this is more than just a little bit awesome. <3 <3 <3

edit: when can we expect the indu and research modifiers for systems ?
Uncle Shrimpa
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#8 - 2014-04-29 11:45:34 UTC
Still no mention of new station bonuses - as promised like 4 blogs ago

CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2014-04-29 11:47:00 UTC
I understand the pricing for manufacturing. However, I do not understand the pricing for research: what's the output price? Could you give us some examples of what it would cost to (a)add a level of ME to a bpo (b)Make copies of that bpo or (c) run an invention job?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2014-04-29 11:48:44 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
this is more than just a little bit awesome. <3 <3 <3

It is indeed!

Just let these changes sink a bit into you and realize the epic proportions of all this. Smile

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Kithran
#11 - 2014-04-29 11:51:52 UTC
Will there be any way to affect the NPC tax amount thanks to standings with either the Faction the owning corp belongs to or with the Corp that owns the station itself (given both these standings affect one of the other npc taxes you pay for an activity in a station and one of these standings affects the other)?
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-04-29 11:54:41 UTC
Greyscale, these numbers are fascinating! However many people may still fear nullsec will pay low costs while highsec me I'll be high everywhere! Can you post numbers on how many systems in highsec see no activity at all so as to demonstrate how much people may he able to find low cost operating locations? BlinkBlinkBlink

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions
#13 - 2014-04-29 11:55:58 UTC
So, it is on purpose that specific systems will be a lot better for building stuff than others?

That will raise office prices in those system by a lot, and people who already have setup in those systems by now will have an advantage over people who would want to get in there. How will that be compensated?

Also, from what i gathered in this post, low-sec will face basically the same values as high sec? so, whats the incentive for using low-sec?


Also, the over-time bonus, when i have two 100 run bpc, and i put them in production one after the other, will it get better bonuses for the bulk, or will the "more runs" thing only be counted per bpc?

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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#14 - 2014-04-29 11:56:04 UTC
I was expecting a bigger incentive to build in null-sec. Maybe I'm wrong, or I have trouble grasping actual numbers, time will tell.

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[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2014-04-29 11:56:10 UTC
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
Still no mention of new station bonuses - as promised like 4 blogs ago


you didn't read closely, those are in there.

Quote:
For each previously-slot-improving outpost research upgrade, you'll similarly get a 0.9x multiplier to research job prices.

For each previously slot-improving manufacturing-related Outpost Improvement, you'll get a 1% bonus to ME instead (we can do that now). This is different because the manufacturing slot upgrades in particular are pretty substantial right now, and installation costs are assumed to be a sufficiently small fraction of final item costs in nullsec that a cost multiplier here seemed underwhelming. We're still looking at the exact bonus here, and the relationship between Amarr and Minmatar outposts in particular, so this may change before it's released.


However, I'm fairly underwhelmed by the manufacturing slot replacement bonus. The reason is that it's exactly the same as the POS bonus: I can spend 60b on a station, or 300m on a pos. I think it's a little absurd that the absolute pinnacle of manufacturing you can aspire to, spend huge amounts of money to create, and have to defend gives you nothing better than a pos one jump from jita. And that's from a hyper-specialized factory: once you do that you've used up nearly all of your outpost upgrade slots and you've only got one tier 1 left (probably offices). I think that bonus should be increased slightly at the high end (i.e. a tier 2 or 3 upgrade should give 2%) or the bonus given to pos should be reduced somewhat.

While people will claim pos are at risk, they're not: pos assembly arrays don't drop anything from a build in progress. Entity alluded to his "20b pos" in another thread, where if it was attacked he'd lose 20b of manufacturing products. But the thing is, if I bothered to find it and kill it, I'd get none of that: the assembly arrays would act like they were empty since between the build being installed and delivered, they are. So nobody will bother attacking pos unless someone's really pissed them off: it'll be purely for griefing and not for profit.

I can't comment on the value of the research upgrade as I don't understand how research is priced, so I don't know if this is valuable or saves me several whole pennies.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Uncle Shrimpa
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#16 - 2014-04-29 12:02:10 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
Still no mention of new station bonuses - as promised like 4 blogs ago


you didn't read closely, those are in there.

Quote:
For each previously-slot-improving outpost research upgrade, you'll similarly get a 0.9x multiplier to research job prices.

For each previously slot-improving manufacturing-related Outpost Improvement, you'll get a 1% bonus to ME instead (we can do that now). This is different because the manufacturing slot upgrades in particular are pretty substantial right now, and installation costs are assumed to be a sufficiently small fraction of final item costs in nullsec that a cost multiplier here seemed underwhelming. We're still looking at the exact bonus here, and the relationship between Amarr and Minmatar outposts in particular, so this may change before it's released.


However, I'm fairly underwhelmed by the manufacturing slot replacement bonus. The reason is that it's exactly the same as the POS bonus: I can spend 60b on a station, or 300m on a pos. I think it's a little absurd that the absolute pinnacle of manufacturing you can aspire to, spend huge amounts of money to create, and have to defend gives you nothing better than a pos one jump from jita. And that's from a hyper-specialized factory: once you do that you've used up nearly all of your outpost upgrade slots and you've only got one tier 1 left (probably offices). I think that bonus should be increased slightly at the high end (i.e. a tier 2 or 3 upgrade should give 2%) or the bonus given to pos should be reduced somewhat.

While people will claim pos are at risk, they're not: pos assembly arrays don't drop anything from a build in progress. Entity alluded to his "20b pos" in another thread, where if it was attacked he'd lose 20b of manufacturing products. But the thing is, if I bothered to find it and kill it, I'd get none of that: the assembly arrays would act like they were empty since between the build being installed and delivered, they are. So nobody will bother attacking pos unless someone's really pissed them off: it'll be purely for griefing and not for profit.

I can't comment on the value of the research upgrade as I don't understand how research is priced, so I don't know if this is valuable or saves me several whole pennies.



Yeah, that didn't really say **** and only acknowledges a few of the bonuses

CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)

Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#17 - 2014-04-29 12:02:28 UTC
Weaselior wrote:

I can't comment on the value of the research upgrade as I don't understand how research is priced, so I don't know if this is valuable or saves me several whole pennies.


I second the need for research / copying examples.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2014-04-29 12:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
So, basically if I produce in a 1 station system in High sec, I am screwed?

And production in general for a ton of items is going to be unprofitable for a very long time. Wonderful. I sure hope you have plans to keep EVE up for the next couple of years until things have finally normalized at a profitable level again. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2014-04-29 12:09:55 UTC
For research upgrades: do both invention and research slots get pooled (so 1x research slot upgrade 1x invention slot upgrade = .81 modifier for both types of jobs) or is it individual (1x and 1x means .9 modifier for both)?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#20 - 2014-04-29 12:09:58 UTC
So the taxes introduced for jobs, are they affected by the skills based around tax reductions?
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