Ships & Modules

Wrong, you can fit 2 webs on every one of them and to do that much DPS has you say the only way to go is to shield fit it, have less tank than my shift fit thorax but has the thorax spits big amounts of dps at point blank.

So nice to have 1400dps at 3 or 5 km? - with 20k EHP on a 300m sign rad ship? -haha indeed so awesome

So gallente came from gank brutix and "ganking on belts" to gank Talos and "ganking on belts"
Indeed such an improvement, how didn't we saw that just before the release and posted about it, I mean why should Gallente do other thing than gank at undocks, gates or belts?

Send the Talos you don't want to me I'm about to get lvl4 Metal Scrap Processing with my indy toon. I need some minerals to launch my Tornado prod.

Rabbits are still and will still be rabbits for a long time

EDIT: because I can and I like it - Keep ganking mackinaws and hulks with brutix, after all you guys think hybrids became FOTOM so why change now for an overpriced hull when brutix is all you need.

On the other hand, all those tanky haulers now should fear the sight of Talos at gates, it's the only thing he's good for so fit some more kin/therm resists

those new ships are useless like a brick of ****.
or did anyone find a use for them ?

[Talos, Ysmir

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

100MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


Acolyte TD-300 x5

---

Near mwd speeds no sig bloom or cap penalty can kite with null decent dps and just enough ehp for scimi's to hold onto i use td's drones to duel other tier3's on sisi drones are of course users choice a lg snake set and damage/shield implants helps under reps or to keep Machs in range long enough to melt them eats sfi and vagas with high grades. Run from tengus. Have fun.

The problem with the talos (and also the other three new bcs, but the talos has it so much worse) is that you just cannot mitigate damage and you tank like a wet paper bag. That means that even with logistics support, you are going to take pretty big losses. Against any decent gang (not just alpha ships ANY ships), they are in real danger of being popped so fast that logis can't get to them in time. The talos has it the worst because it needs to be in close and mostly needs to mwding.

The OPs fit has 21k ehp. 21k. It takes just under ten seconds to get reps to a ship under battle conditions ( 2.3 seconds of lock time, 2.5 seconds waiting for reps to finish their cycle and 5 seconds for the reps to cycle again). That means that an opposing gang can just ignore your logistics if they can apply 2100 dps. That is a very low amount of dps for any gang.

All the while you are doing sick dps, sure, but the question is, can you bulldoze them in the same way with BS guns ? The answer is probably not. You have short range, and the targets either have signature and speed to drop your damage, or have a lot of ehp to chew through, and your applied dps in the first 10 seconds of hitting a new target is not great.

Blasters are bad weapons to dump dps on to a target. Needing 6000 dps to gank a target before reps arrive sounds pretty easy for these ships, but you are going to need to either a) spend a few seconds getting into optimal, applying webs and killing your transversal before getting your blasters doing anything useful, or b) change to null and lose 25% of your damage. Lasers and autocannons (ie mens weapons) don't have that problem.

Even if you can bulldoze through their logistics once you are in range, you are still going to be killing slower than any stock gang type, and it won't take long for your dps to drop below their minimum tank amount and then you all get to die and get no more kills.

What I see happening, even in an even numbers small gang fight, is that the other guys just kill you. They just call primaries and you die. You kill a few of them, maybe even keeping pace at the start, as your Taloses (Talii ? or is it just Talos ?) do have lots of damage. But after losing 3 or 4 or more ships, you lose pace and you won't kill anymore. You'd have to outnumber any other frequently seen gang (even shieldcanes have more tank... like 3x as much tank actually) to have any ships left at the end, and a lot of the time you just don't have the choice.

Oh and good luck disengaging in this gang. You lose 3 more guys as you deagress.

There's no reason to downgrade guns and upgrade tank for these simple reasons:

1-MWD= 500% radius

2-Downgrade weapons = less op/falloff distance

= You'll need to get closer, and so travel more to apply dmg, while taking 110% dmg on a paper thin brick

Do some tests, equip one Tornado with 800mm, ho wait, downgrade for 650mm Autos hehe you'll have an even better tank on Tornado and better dps, yes it's that silly

Time your Talos gets in range, let's say they're at opposite sides of the gate, about what 40km?

Your Talos is already dead before he can align/warp out.

Hmmm help new players without dumbing the game down.......

Back when I was new I just got a slap to the face and was told to learn how to learn. What makes these guys so special?

unfortunately, this

Feel free to explain it's essence, i must have missed it.

(not to be stingy, i even ran a quick search without any good results).

I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding my posts, but thank you for the excerpt nonetheless .

The law probably apply in many instances where benefitting new players is an expressed concern, in this case though it's not necessarily a design change solely to cater to introduction. Also, the law will apply initially - just not over time - which is something you could in part attribute to Malcanis' Law as a whole.

Another way to look at it would be to describe the law in terms of causality and political terminology (action-reaction) and in that case the law mirror the point i tried to make; that while these new ships are introduced to spur action their lasting implication is likely a stifling reaction. Action is the same as emergent gameplay, a term our designers enjoy on a theoretical level but seem to have lasting problems understanding on an implementation level.

In short, long term the new tier BC will hurt the emergent gameplay of EVE in the same way the Drake is often criticized for (ed., Smabs here just below me is onto the very same thing i am, he's just not as bitter).