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The interesting thing is that for those that just obtained a POS or otherwise just obtained access to research slots (null, low, wherever), we now know what we need to do. We need to push as many BPOs to 10/10 as possible before the changes drop. We also need to start turning out copies of these BPOs as much as possible, while we can keep the BPOs safely in station.

A suggestion that would solve all the problems associated with maximum run BPCs not having enough runs to be economical. Just remove the max runs stat. Let us make BPCs with as many runs as we can fit in a 30 day cycle, or for however long we are willing to leave the BPO in the lab at a POS.

Or, put the BPO in a POS, and get an *even lower copying time again* due to POSes providing a multiplier that reduces copying time, and get bigger rewards.

To quote you, "Obviously reading comprehension is not your strong point."

I'm sure (not) it went like this....

Wouldn't it be fun if every industrialist had to create a corp of just his alts, then spend a ton of time logging in each alt just to deliver copy jobs and then kick off more copy jobs?

Oh yeah! That would be super fun game play with all clicks being meaningful.



Or perhaps it went something like this:

You know, this whole risk v,. reward thing. What if we made them put the BPOs at the POS to research.

Yesh... that sounds good.

Do we need to consider any other aspect?

Like what?

Guess not.



So things like lock down and corp theft probably never entered their minds.

Then the players were like... What the hell? Not more shared BPOs protected from corp theft?

And CCP is like... well...ah.... err.... umm...... yeah, we wanted industry to be driven by BPCs instead of BPOs, because it will be so fun logging in all those alts in single player alt corps, maintaining a POS and kicking off all those copy jobs, several times a day. Woot, woot, fun, fun.



Oh... players are complaining. Hmmm. What if we up max copies so they don't have to put in teh copy jobs as often?

Ummmm... that breaks invention....

Oh crud. Ummmm....

Increase T2 production from BPO with faster copy....

Oh ummmm....


Copy is not per run, but half the max run, so you can create a 400 run BPO in the time it would take to make 200....

Oh... ummmm....


Now players pointing out that post change, it will take 4, 5 or more times as long to create a BPO with less than 1% worse than perfect. New players screwed much? Oh yeah!



I cannot believe how NOT thought through these changes are.




I can't wait for the cost scaling!

That probably started like this.....

Let's cut high sec factory slots way down, and push null way up.

Hmmm... then casual players will log in and find no slots available in high... they will get frustrated and quit.

Hey, how about we go to unlimited slots and just make high sec like 14% more expensive than null.....

yeah, that will work!


Oh really? Like the casual player won't do their homework, find there is NOTHING they can make cheaper than market sell price, then unsub.

5 weeks build time. Each. Excluding time for components and the base freighter. Every one clocking in at ~5 billion in raw materials.
THANK you for your helpful advice.

And there's this tiny but significant difference between 6x 8 run BPC's across the various empire factions and 48 singles.
Anyway, these things happen with patches, it's just a hefty difference in that if these changes go through, _all_ JF bpcs that aren't 1 run ME -1's become worthless because you can just buy a better bpc for far less money than the additional materials needed.

Feedback:
The players with extra high researched high value BPO are getting a raw deal.
Researching these BPO to a extra high level was sensible because of the huge benefits of even 0,1 wastage reduction in the long run(infinity) far outweigh the cost of research.

If the BPO are changed in the proposed system these players are now faced with a situation where they cannot reap the rewards of their extra investment.

A fairer way of doing the change over would be to transfer ME(before the patch) to new ME based on the researched time.

This wil also prevent large scale speculation on the BPO market.
Because people wont be able to make tons and tons of me 10 bpo before the patch.
Im sure half of the people who read the dev post have already started doing this.
Making it even worse for players owning the high value bpo with high ME.

Currently there is an overflow of copies on the market.
Copies are generaly worth less then fuel it took to make them.
Instead of increasing the copy speed. They should decrease the production speeds on the bpo(and maybe also the copy speed a little).

Also i hope there wil be some new form of selling these copies because the current contract systems is very time consuming to use and user unfriendly to sell items with.
Either create an regional market for bpc or create a multi contract system.

I hope i get a reply from a dev on each of the points ive made above.

So if my math is correct a ME 5 Freighter will be equivalent to ME 9 (new system). ME research time required, with no skill modifiers at an NPC station, 296 and 1835 days using the old and new methods, respectively. Cool reduces my competition.

Perfect ME for most T1 small ammo took between four hours and 2 days. Using the new ME math 5 days. This is breaking even and not all that profitable anyhow.

T1 modules i.e. gyrostabilizer and 1600mm reinforced plates currently require 19 days and 473 days for perfect by the old system. Now just 10 days kind of stings. Well with Meta 0-3 nurfed through the ground they were never going to be profitable again. Pro tip: Most meta 1-3 items prices are tied to the ore reprocess value, which is soon to be 50% less, making them less expensive the ore needed to build meta 0.

So,

Thank you for the buff to all the big ships that a new player will never achieve. Thank you for the battleship hulls that will only take 30 days and not 300. Or 600 day freighters and not 4365 (12 years).

Well ok on the ammo, I can live with that. New players can make that too.

Would say I want a refund for all the time wasted on T1 modules, but those stopped being profitable long ago….

Most new player friendly expansion I have seen yet.

OMG yes. I don't see how we can all build from copies when it will be risky to make pos copies and not that many stations can make them. Yes I get the stations will be slotless...but I will no longer use a pos. So all my days of building from copies are over unless something changes.

I still think this is a secret isk sink as once all the research pos's corps get war dec'd and the pos's blown up (goons anyone) there will be no copying except in stations. Or we just build from BPO's and have to buy more bpo's.

I do see the lack of safe copying crippling invention.

You want a fix. Allow remote copy like before. (and research if you please).

EDIT: I have many well researched BPO's. If you just make them perfect under the new system that is fine. No need for cosmetic junk.

Also the dude that thinks this is dumbing down eve. Its not. Just making it more comprehensible. It will still be complicated..just cooler.

Hello were CCP we LOVE NEW PLAYERS... They can follow there own path... doing pvp

yes you will

use that noggin a bit more and figure it out

Okay, I'm just a little disappointed. As a small time industry focused person, I've been doing research/invention/copying at public installations. Sometimes I have to wait 2-3 month before I can get my 30 days of research in.

I've been researching my bpo's for over a year and have a bunch where I can now begin to make marginal profits. Notice "MARGINAL" profits. Now, just about anybody to get to where I got very quickly.

My "general complaint" is that I used to be an Explorer. I trained long and hard for the Deep-Space Probes and spent many months learning and perfecting exploration. But, I guess CCP thought it was too difficult, so they lowered the bar that I finally reached.

This is happening again. You make an interesting / challenging game and when everybody works up on that challenge, you lower the bar because it is too hard.

Any ideas what is going to happen to the Market? Now that better BPO's and BPC's are going to quickly come online. The market prices of items will drop due to less cost and more availability.

Okay, I'm fine with trying to make the Math simpler. But there are cost/benefit tools out there that will do this for you. If people can't be bothered to study cost / benefit, then they shouldn't be able to profit that those that do.