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Physics based bump?
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Zander Kumamato
The Chaos Void
#41 - 2014-04-28 12:16:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zander Kumamato
Collision mode button, two individuals can turn off bumping then experience the full glory of smashing ships together in fully destructible graphics!

The glory of dying by flying an interceptor at max speed into (through?) a battleship.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#42 - 2014-04-28 13:50:24 UTC
Physics based bumps while hilarious would not be a good idea.

If such a thing came to pass I'd give it less than 72 hours before someone starts using unarmed, extremely fast, ships to make much larger ones explode.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-04-28 14:29:28 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Also you would fire and have a clear line but your missile would hit the asteroid right next to you as it was getting its barrings, and due to splash damage you would blow up.

sounds really cool for me

However i agree that using of simplified boxes around objects for collision makes it just bad in many cases.
And using real object boundaries you will blow the server in every big battle

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#44 - 2014-04-28 14:53:08 UTC
Tweek Etimua wrote:
Destoya wrote:
E = 0.5*m*(v^2)

Sorry I'm an idiot with math and some science. ....


American detected.
Penguinizer Illat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-04-28 15:09:06 UTC
I... Why are people using the formula for kinetic energy? That doesn't really make much sense in the context of an object being moved by a collision.

Then again, it's a liquid universe space submarine game, so maybe physics works differently.
Tweek Etimua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-04-28 16:27:16 UTC
Zander Kumamato wrote:
Collision mode button, two individuals can turn off bumping then experience the full glory of smashing ships together in fully destructible graphics!

The glory of dying by flying an interceptor at max speed into (through?) a battleship.

Must be 18 or older to collide thorax's?
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2014-04-28 16:31:38 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Physics based bumps while hilarious would not be a good idea.

If such a thing came to pass I'd give it less than 72 hours before someone starts using unarmed, extremely fast, ships to make much larger ones explode.



72 hours... More like 72 seconds... I've always wanted a practical use for the 10K per second perma MWD Imperial Navy Slicer. (Well, the cheap version is only a little over 8K per second w/o links, or implants.)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#48 - 2014-04-28 16:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Physics based bumps while hilarious would not be a good idea.

If such a thing came to pass I'd give it less than 72 hours before someone starts using unarmed, extremely fast, ships to make much larger ones explode.



72 hours... More like 72 seconds... I've always wanted a practical use for the 10K per second perma MWD Imperial Navy Slicer. (Well, the cheap version is only a little over 8K per second w/o links, or implants.)

lol We need to be able to fit ships with explosive charges, one of the combat tutorial missions features just such a ship, which is used to destroy an NPC structure

Tweek Etimua wrote:
Zander Kumamato wrote:
Collision mode button, two individuals can turn off bumping then experience the full glory of smashing ships together in fully destructible graphics!

The glory of dying by flying an interceptor at max speed into (through?) a battleship.

Must be 18 or older to collide thorax's?
Still a better love story than Twilight Shocked

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Solecist Project
#49 - 2014-04-28 16:38:20 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Physics based bumps while hilarious would not be a good idea.

If such a thing came to pass I'd give it less than 72 hours before someone starts using unarmed, extremely fast, ships to make much larger ones explode.



72 hours... More like 72 seconds... I've always wanted a practical use for the 10K per second perma MWD Imperial Navy Slicer. (Well, the cheap version is only a little over 8K per second w/o links, or implants.)

lol We need to be able to fit ships with explosive charges, one of the combat tutorial missions features just such a ship, which is used to destroy an NPC structure

That would open a huge can of worms CCP would have to figure out how to fix...

Love the idea though...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#50 - 2014-04-28 17:57:50 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Why can space ships collide into other ships, asteroids, and buildings, but they can still shoot their weapons through them as if they're not there?

It would be fun to use a large collidable structure as cover to lose LoS and prevent some attacks.

I dunno, i guess Tactical positioning within your environment is too hard, and the community full of risk averse carebears demand Easy Mode PvP. Which is also demonstrated as being the case when a 10 year veteran doesn't want skill training time decreased so he may hold onto his advantage.

EvE Online? More like, EasyMode Online



when i first started playing this was a problem. If you fired missiles and a rat or shipping happen to be behind an asteroid, the missile would hit the asteroid and cause splash damage. As there was no way to navigate around roids easily this was a very annoying mechanic. They changed this in kali (Cold War) i think


O well that makes sense.

I guess that kind of contradicts the opinion I'm told about EvE being all about PvP, when CCP themselves have made a change to improve their playerbase's ability to PvE easier.

Thanks for the information.


It was not just PVE. It was annoying as hell. Because you could not see that billy bob was behind the roid. Several times i was saved a few seconds in pvp back in the day because a missile would not hit me, and other times i missed a kill for the same reason. You would have a clear line of site, but still hit an asteroid. So it went both ways and was a huge change for the better. Also you would fire and have a clear line but your missile would hit the asteroid right next to you as it was getting its barrings, and due to splash damage you would blow up.

If eve's collision detection wasn't so awful, then this would not be a problem. It makes me laugh that I can hit my enemy straight through an asteroid, or when my drones fly through a giant space rock as if it wasn't there.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-04-28 18:00:45 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Physics based bumps while hilarious would not be a good idea.

If such a thing came to pass I'd give it less than 72 hours before someone starts using unarmed, extremely fast, ships to make much larger ones explode.



72 hours... More like 72 seconds... I've always wanted a practical use for the 10K per second perma MWD Imperial Navy Slicer. (Well, the cheap version is only a little over 8K per second w/o links, or implants.)

Except if we are going down the realistic route, then the perma MWD Imerpial Navy Slicer would get squished like a fly on the windscreen of a high speed train.
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#52 - 2014-04-28 18:09:04 UTC
Posting in a Nerf jita thread....



I like UAE.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#53 - 2014-04-28 18:10:49 UTC
Something like:
(Mass1 + Mass2) / Mass1 * Velocity = DeltaV with If DeltaV < 0.5 m/s then DeltaV = 0

Same with the other ship.

All of that for x, y and z of relative vectors and you can calculate the new vectors each ship gets bumped along at what velocity with really big ships not getting bumped at all by small ships. Probably need to add some equal and opposite force in, too.

Then again finding out where to put the code is probably more difficult than figuring the physics out.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-04-28 18:19:58 UTC
Hlokk Skoggangur wrote:
Still, taking out a fleet with an expanding cloud of astroids bouncing off each other would look very cool.

Would be amusing if miners had to avoid being hit and damaged by asteroids in an asteroid belts. And for the really big belts, one large asteroid and goodbye mining barge.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2014-04-28 18:34:55 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Physics based bumps while hilarious would not be a good idea.

If such a thing came to pass I'd give it less than 72 hours before someone starts using unarmed, extremely fast, ships to make much larger ones explode.



72 hours... More like 72 seconds... I've always wanted a practical use for the 10K per second perma MWD Imperial Navy Slicer. (Well, the cheap version is only a little over 8K per second w/o links, or implants.)

Except if we are going down the realistic route, then the perma MWD Imerpial Navy Slicer would get squished like a fly on the windscreen of a high speed train.


Oh, it would be destroyed, no doubt about that. It should total most things that it hit though.

Those fits use cruiser sized MWD's, which add effective mass equivalent to 1/2 a cruiser. A 10K/s slicer is moving at 22,000 miles per hour (Mach 30 in aviation terms)... That would be quite an impact. I suppose I could work out the effective impact force, but it's not really worth it.

Besides, if you want real impact force, you can set up a battleship sized MWD Loki with a only slightly slower speed.
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-04-28 19:20:11 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Something like:
(Mass1 + Mass2) / Mass1 * Velocity = DeltaV with If DeltaV < 0.5 m/s then DeltaV = 0

Same with the other ship.

All of that for x, y and z of relative vectors and you can calculate the new vectors each ship gets bumped along at what velocity with really big ships not getting bumped at all by small ships. Probably need to add some equal and opposite force in, too.

Then again finding out where to put the code is probably more difficult than figuring the physics out.


Well, due to different inertia modifiers the amount of inert mass isn't that hugely different between different ship types, as I've pointed out above.
If you want all the mass of larger ships to contribute to inertia, then you'll have to live with the result this has to ship agility, as well, I guess.

I was interested in what your formula would mean, so I've done two examples:

First the ships these examples are about:

Condor with 1MN MWD has a mass of 1.6 million kg and an inertia modifier of 2.9 before skills, meaning due to the weird way our warp engines works it has the inertia of a non-warpdrived lump of matter of almost 3 times the mass: 4.64 million kg

Stabber with 10MN MWD has a mass of 16.4 million kg and an inertia modifier of 0.5 before skills, meaning an inert mass of 8.2 million kg.

Archon has a mass of 1.11 billion kg and an inertia modifier of 0.0455 before skills, meaning an inert mass of about 51 million kg.

Putting these into your formula.

First case: Condor bumping an Archon with 3km/s: (55.6 million kg / 4.64 million kg) * 3km / s = 36 km/s delta v????
Maybe you've meant it like this: (own Mass / (other Mass + own Mass)) * Velocity = DeltaV applied to bump target

With that it's (4.64 million kg / 55.6 million kg) * 3km/s ~ 250 m/s DeltaV

Second case: Stabber bumping an Archon with 2 km/s: (8.2 million kg / 59.2 million kg) * 2 km/s ~ 277 m/s DeltaV

So in both cases you'd be able to bump the Archon away with about 250 m/s.

Now I don't have any experience with that ingame, but those with the experience can compare how much more ridiculous things are ingame, I guess.
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