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Dev blog: Industry UI

First post
Author
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#181 - 2014-04-28 17:42:04 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Btw, where has the potential Profit part gone in your current final draft? That was something, which could really make the industry window a lot more informative about whether something is worth producing or not - without checking on 3rd party websites or personal spreadsheets. If would of course just give a rough value for the current region you produce in (which limits the usefulness if you don't produce in the region you want to sell your stuff in, naturally; unless you can set a specific sell place for the calculations), but at least you had an indicator on whether it's profitable at all or not.

It would be awful nice not to require 3rd party spread sheets just to determine the production cost of something you're making. It'd make the system much more friendly to casual players


The plan is to move the estimated input cost into a tooltip.

We felt having multiple ISK values on the screen ran the risk of people accidentally assuming it was a cost that needed to be paid.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Callisto Helix
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#182 - 2014-04-28 17:44:30 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
Will it treat the pos as one big storage?


This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable.


Then the remote skill is truly a waste now. Before it was used to use a BPO from station in a pos, now that that single thing is taken away it will be impossible to do this currently as you will physically have to be at the pos to deliver or our on build jobs as everything we pretty much do in a CAA requires the size to be much larger. Once you deliver jobs and overfill the array, you have to empty it before you can do everything else, so again, you have to be at the pos, so remote skill is freaking USELESS


This has not changed from before, you need to have your materials in the assembly array already.

However I have poked CCP Ytterbium about whether we could increase their capacity anyway and he is going to take a look. However we can't make any promises on this.


If the assembly arrays are not able to have their capacities increased (or at least not to the point where it makes enough of a difference, would it be possible to have the industry UI allow some "smart dragging"? Here's what I have in mind:

Currently in order to make fuel blocks at a POS, I can only do ~500 run jobs because I can't fit enough materials into an ammo production array at the same time to do any more than that. As a result, I have to manually shift drag 7 different items and manually enter quantities between 500-200000 from the CHA to the assembly array. And I have to do that for each BPO/job. From how things are described currently, it doesn't sound like much will be changing regarding the number of clicking & dragging I have to do with the new UI.

So, if it's at all possible, allow me to drag and drop my entire stockpile of water & PI components from the corporate hangar on top of the industry UI once the BPO, array, runs, etc. are selected and just move the appropriate amount of materials into the assembly array. Short of being able to point it at a corp hangar for its materials (which you've already said isn't happening with this patch) it would remove a lot of headache for those of us that do all of our production at POS's (in my case wormhole industrialists).
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#183 - 2014-04-28 17:47:20 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Work in progress mockup for Reverse Engineering and Invention activities visualization



Inputs: lots of stacks of Mexalon
blueprint: BPO of a Skiff
Something on the output side: Icon of large projectile ammo
Outcome: Megatron Federate Issue

WTH??!?!?!?!

How is that even remotely helpful?
Veldar Reku
Wu Xi Holdings
#184 - 2014-04-28 17:50:46 UTC
Questions:

Will this new interface remove the clickfest invention interface?

Will it be possible to simply drag&drop a BPC, press enter to have the job installed and industry window ready for next job?
Nasro Drags
Heretic Army
#185 - 2014-04-28 17:51:27 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:


The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings.

So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.



This seems to me like repetitive and meaningless clicking with 0 gameplay associated. A bot which auto clicks that submit button will be just as efficient as a person (clear sign of mindless clicking). Why not have the game itself do it for you?

It doesn't even need to have some batch installing which might be complex in the programming side... just auto repeat the last action until it can no longer be repeated (lack of slots or lack of skills). Some sort of checkbox to autorepeat would do the trick.
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
Band of Boogers
#186 - 2014-04-28 17:52:50 UTC
Pretty UI. It looks like a great improvement over the current interface.

I only have one objection: Your use of blink and blink like effects as in the empty and unavailable states for blueprints. The human vision system react strongly to blink effects (is that a Tiger in the grass?) so blink should only be used when attention is absolutely needed here and now. A slot that is simply empty doesn't warrant that.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#187 - 2014-04-28 17:57:31 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Btw, where has the potential Profit part gone in your current final draft? That was something, which could really make the industry window a lot more informative about whether something is worth producing or not - without checking on 3rd party websites or personal spreadsheets. If would of course just give a rough value for the current region you produce in (which limits the usefulness if you don't produce in the region you want to sell your stuff in, naturally; unless you can set a specific sell place for the calculations), but at least you had an indicator on whether it's profitable at all or not.

It would be awful nice not to require 3rd party spread sheets just to determine the production cost of something you're making. It'd make the system much more friendly to casual players


The plan is to move the estimated input cost into a tooltip.

We felt having multiple ISK values on the screen ran the risk of people accidentally assuming it was a cost that needed to be paid.


Well, in your current final draft it sure is awful to display several number values. But in your first wireframe picture it was absolutely clear what was cost and what was profit value.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

William Andersen
Andersen and Phelps Inc
#188 - 2014-04-28 18:13:01 UTC
This is great all of it, plus so many animated gifs :)

| | corp:andph | |

Banko Mato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2014-04-28 18:18:11 UTC
Huang Mo wrote:
Pretty UI. It looks like a great improvement over the current interface.

I only have one objection: Your use of blink and blink like effects as in the empty and unavailable states for blueprints. The human vision system react strongly to blink effects (is that a Tiger in the grass?) so blink should only be used when attention is absolutely needed here and now. A slot that is simply empty doesn't warrant that.


Imho the same bad design as presented in the profession minigames... nobody needs animation/blink/effects in neither the minigames nor the industry UI. Save sparkles, shrink graphics down to an appropriate size, use text instead/besides of mats icons, and at least usability in general will benefit ;)
tiewan
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#190 - 2014-04-28 18:18:31 UTC
Dear CCP,

Your proposal pleases me.

You may proceed.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#191 - 2014-04-28 18:25:34 UTC
Don't like all the fancy graphics. Not my thing. But I'll geet used to it. Should I stick to industry.

It looks very touchable though. Make EVE useable on touch screens and you'll get my like, CCP.

Remove standings and insurance.

Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#192 - 2014-04-28 18:30:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Theng Hofses
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
TonoRocker wrote:
What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***

Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****

"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014

Thanks.


For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc


Which is the hallmark of an inefficient design and sub-optimal execution. Why use a computer and programming when you can make a human do a repetitive job?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#193 - 2014-04-28 18:37:13 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:

Then CCP is doomed to fail, because we do not accept risk. We accept lower profit to avoid risk, until the profit becomes too low, then we move back to high sec.

i accept risk and i'm going to beat your brains out in whatever market i choose to as long as i can get rewarded for my risk-taking

now, i understand npc alts don't like risk but they're barely human


You hide too. You hide in goonswarm. Come out and try being in a ten man corp with 30 total toons.

i put in the work to assist my alliance to its position of dominance and we risked amounts of isk beyond your comprehension getting there

we are reaping the rewards of that risk because we did not cower in highsec

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#194 - 2014-04-28 18:45:37 UTC
Theng Hofses wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
TonoRocker wrote:
What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***

Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****

"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014

Thanks.


For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc


Which is the hallmark of an inefficient design and sub-optimal execution. Why use a computer and programming when you can make a human do a repetitive job?


We have some designs for how a batch system would work but it does add more complexity to the UI in order to explain what a batch is and whether or not you can submit it / how much it costs etc. We are going to see how efficient the UI can be without it and then re-assess if it is worth trying to add some additional helpers in for mass producers.

If the difference is 10 seconds vs 3 seconds to fill your characters quota of industry jobs though then I'm not as worried about the time it takes. It is still a significant improvement over the current UI.

This is not the last discussion we will have about this feature request though.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#195 - 2014-04-28 18:54:23 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:
Work in progress mockup for Reverse Engineering and Invention activities visualization



Inputs: lots of stacks of Mexalon
blueprint: BPO of a Skiff
Something on the output side: Icon of large projectile ammo
Outcome: Megatron Federate Issue

WTH??!?!?!?!

How is that even remotely helpful?


It's a mockup for the UI layout, all the content in it is in what we call "Lorem Ipsum" state

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow

CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#196 - 2014-04-28 19:00:37 UTC
Veldar Reku wrote:
Questions:

Will this new interface remove the clickfest invention interface?

Will it be possible to simply drag&drop a BPC, press enter to have the job installed and industry window ready for next job?


Yes

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow

Wellington Lamarr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#197 - 2014-04-28 19:16:32 UTC
Very nice post, thank you!


Would it be possible to stack invention and reverse engineering jobs? It would be nice to be able to set up a few of them rather than re-visiting the industry interface every hour or two for 11 jobs. Big smile
Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
#198 - 2014-04-28 19:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Scarlett LaBlanc
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
TonoRocker wrote:
What about manufacturing using multiple BP at the same time, this would save tons of clicks. When you manufacturing Fuel blocks for example, i use 10BPC, it would be nice to select them all, ricght click, manufacture. ***Fairy dust***

Or maybe if im building a T2 ship for example, you can start the construction jobs needed for all the components from that T2 ship BP. ***Sparkles****

"Less clicks, more magic. " -TR 2014

Thanks.


For now you will need 10 quick clicks, the interface can be used with the keyboard now so click down arrow, and then enter to submit. Down and submit. etc


If invention works the same way then I can check the biggest item off my "Summer update wish list"!

Edit: thanks to CCP Arrow for confirming this two posts above.
While everyone reading this can most likely pick out something we would like to see different, this is vastly superior to the current UI
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#199 - 2014-04-28 19:22:28 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Btw, where has the potential Profit part gone in your current final draft? That was something, which could really make the industry window a lot more informative about whether something is worth producing or not - without checking on 3rd party websites or personal spreadsheets. If would of course just give a rough value for the current region you produce in (which limits the usefulness if you don't produce in the region you want to sell your stuff in, naturally; unless you can set a specific sell place for the calculations), but at least you had an indicator on whether it's profitable at all or not.

It would be awful nice not to require 3rd party spread sheets just to determine the production cost of something you're making. It'd make the system much more friendly to casual players



While I'm one of the people who make those 3rd party sheets, I agree with this completely.


Basic tasks shouldn't require 3rd party tools.

Now, building your shopping lists etc, that's where they should come into play.


(Yes, basic ship fitting, with your current skills, should be able to be simulated in Eve, without needing to buy anything.)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#200 - 2014-04-28 20:29:35 UTC
I don't understand this section:

Quote:
The quality meter around blueprints that are being reverse engineered or invented will determine the potential quality of the outcome. The % value will go up if the player adds optional input items or trains skills that affect the job.

Are there going to be new invention skills to improve T2 BPC quality?

Also, I thought invention was being left until a later release. Is invention UI being changed now?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.