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Dev blog: Industry UI

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CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2014-04-28 12:38:28 UTC
Midori Tsu wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:


Also everything will have tooltips if you need additional clarification or information about any element in the UI.


That info needs to be more obvious, not a tooltip, if want to write a number down in a spreadsheet or some other program, it would require more work than before.


The essential information will be there at all times, but things that are only needed as an additional clarification will be in a tooltip.

Give us specific examples about what information should be displayed at all times that you feel is missing.

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#42 - 2014-04-28 12:38:32 UTC
I'm sure that I will have lots to say later about this blog. Only just noticed it whilst download the patch tonight.
Most of it will most likely be about Replacing some/all of the new Icons with Text for those of us that don't know the icons.
John DaiSho
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#43 - 2014-04-28 12:39:42 UTC
Please add the functionality that you can see how much of the required materials you have when you hover over the material in the industry window. Just make 2 numbers appear like ( 0 I 2300) if you own 0 and need 2300 or ( 4000 I 2300 ) if you have 4000 and need 2300.
It is always nice to know how much exactly is missing or how much of your stock will remain.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#44 - 2014-04-28 12:39:57 UTC
Looks nice, even if it's only UI stuff Blink

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Centurax
CSR Engineering Solutions
Citizen's Star Republic
#45 - 2014-04-28 12:43:06 UTC
Looks really good, cant wait to try it out.

The thing I would still like to see is maybe a unit/batch cost based off of the market average and a job total based on that, then maybe have a comparison against the market item (to see if it is even worth building the product).

If there is a right click option on the materials required to buy from market, would be good if it could automatically add the number required in the amount field Or have a buy all option.

Those are my only real issues as if you are installing many jobs and managing buying everything, everyone will forget to buy something or not buy enough of an item. It would be a nice addition to the interface, which is a vast improvement over the current. Just to clarify I have many times many spreadsheets to workout building stuff, it would just be nice to skip the spreadsheet stage for a quick build P.

Keep up the good work
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#46 - 2014-04-28 12:53:02 UTC
A. Wow.
2. Gonna have to read this in chunks. My tiny clone brain can't process all this goodness at once.

Gonna be a hell of a summer for the company. I hope everyone is ready for The Great Reprocessing that will happen the day before the expansion. I know I'm getting ready.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
MadDog1
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-04-28 12:59:46 UTC
Apparently, my survey wasn't so far fetched. CCP you are awesome! Everything that I mentioned in my survey was implemented, outside of group projects and player tracking of participation in that project.

I see there is a TEAM section, left undiscussed in the blog. Perhaps, this is the group functionality part? One of the main headaches in manufacturing specifically is that to do it in groups requires shared assets and nobody knows how much another person contributed to the overall project. Taking the new UI it seems like if a group met in a station and contributed their materials or blueprints from their personal hangars to a 'project hangar' using the UI drag and drop system, this could fix the current issue with group building.

A player might simply dock at a station where the corp has opened an office. 'Open Indy Project' insert BPO from their personal hangar (not the corps, unless it is a corp job) and assign access to contribute to individual players or an entire corp. At the bottom of the UI each members contribution to the project and estimated isk value of contribution could be listed (when completed players involved in the project might get a killmail type of widget that they can reference past projects and contributions to such projects). When players come online they drag and drop to the open project materials needed to complete the project. A TEAM option such as this will allow newer players to actually work together. The current issue with indy as it relates to manufacturing is many bpo's are owned by players and they hardly want to put those assets in the control of others, Especially, where the BPO's run into the billions. But, I am waiting for the TEAM section of the blog to see what you guys did in this regard. Certainly, you have exceeded my expectations on the UI design for indy and obviously aren't being lazy about the implementation and changes for indy UI.

Thank you CCP.
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp
#48 - 2014-04-28 13:00:10 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.


Ah, that's nice.
Does it remember forever? Of, if I make a 15-run copy of the BPO I usually make 1-run copies of does it then remember the 15? Can I choose what it should remember (or choose when not to remember)?


We will have to nail down the details once it goes to Singularity. The idea however is that, it remembers the settings based on the last submitted job. If you are submitting a BPC of the same type with less runs, then it goes to the max number of runs based on availability of materials.

If you try and submit a BPC with more runs it should go to the max runs dependent on the materials available.

Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
Midori Tsu
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#49 - 2014-04-28 13:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Midori Tsu
CCP Arrow wrote:
Midori Tsu wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:


Also everything will have tooltips if you need additional clarification or information about any element in the UI.


That info needs to be more obvious, not a tooltip, if want to write a number down in a spreadsheet or some other program, it would require more work than before.


The essential information will be there at all times, but things that are only needed as an additional clarification will be in a tooltip.

Give us specific examples about what information should be displayed at all times that you feel is missing.


How much is needed, for example, having to look at a tooltip to see how much is needed is a step back imo. Currently the quote window will display it all, and you can quickly right it down. The new UI means i will have to put my pointer over each icon to see how much i need, right it down, then move my pointer to the next item and then right that down, and continue that process, this gets even more tedious when you want to put that info into a document outside of eve. An easy compromise to this would be a toggle to see a spreadsheet view of the minerals/items needed.

I think for established traders who already do all of the number crunching outside of eve this won't be such a big deal. But for new players i think they will find it frustrating to have to move the pointer over the icon to find out what it is an how much of it they will need.

I'm not to sure how the cost for each job is gonna pan out, but i think that for people who have all of their info in 3rd party programs or spreadsheets are going to find it annoying that the cost maybe constantly changing on them, i think this mostly effects capital and T2 builders the most. For example i'll use a carrier.

the barrier to entry for this is not low, getting everything where you need it is kind of a pain but once its set up its good to go.
week 1 of production will show lets say a 1% cost.
that first week will be components. a total of 1billion isk with 1% its nows 1.01
the next week you start to build the archon, but now theres more usage in that station so you get chargeds 2%, the cost of the carrier is now 1.03, no big deal.
you carry on with this and the price of the carrier is now 1.04 to build, but then someone suddenly starts building a ton of stuff in that station, like cheap takes a long time to build stuff, jsut to clog up the lines. so now the fee is 10%, you have over 1000000 m3 of cap components that you can't really move, now you are forced with an even more increased cost. and if you continue in that station it will bea 20% increase.
I don't know, im kind of rambling now, and the details haven't been released on this, but what im trying to say is that i feel like the ability to find out how much isk its going to cost you is going to be harder to keep up with.

if the cost can somehow be linked to the api that'd be great. maybe limit it to only the station you are in or you have an office at.
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#50 - 2014-04-28 13:14:12 UTC
Initial reactions:


The most anticipated aspect of this blog for me, and many others, was the promise of "less clicks". That is not readily apparent in the blog, but, this dev response is more than satisfying. I find it odd that this wasn't mentioned in the blog itself, as arguably it's one of the most important things players were looking forward to, but oh well.


You mention being able to view and filter blueprints by division and containers. This is amazing. But, since other changes are forcing us to place blueprints inside POS arrays, I just want to seek confirmation of one thing: we will be able to view/filter blueprints residing in containers inside POS arrays, correct? This dev response from the last S&I blog made it sound that way, though in retrospect I might've just misinterpreted it in my excitement.
This might not be an issue at all depending on how good the filtering system is; as with most of these reactions, I'll have to wait for SiSi.


I've noticed that the installations tab no longer has a Public/Corp filter, allowing POS-users to ignore the region-wide station installations that we'll almost never be using. Other parts of the blog (mostly installations defaulting to the blueprint's location) make this a non-issue, so I have nothing in particular against removing that filtering option. But there's that little part of me that hesitates to see a perfectly well-functioning feature disappear, because I might find myself missing it once in a blue moon.


Will we be able to set installation and destination defaults in any way? For example: for invention, I always use Division 1 as input and Division 2 as output, for manufacturing it's 3 -> 4, for reverse engineering it's 5 -> 6, etc. Under Rubicon's UI, I have to select these Division choices 10 times per character per session. Under the new UI I would only have to select them once per character per session, which is already a huge improvement. But it'd be even nicer if I could just set all Invention jobs to default to Divisions 1->2 once per character, and never have to bother with it again.


I was a bit worried that the new fancy UI might actually end up being more work to navigate than the old drop-down menus, but this dev response assuaged my fears. Overall though, I'll really have to wait until the changes are implemented on SiSi to be able to judge. There's other grayish details that could turn out to be amazing quality-of-live improvements, but they're minor things that I'll be able to check on my own. Congrats on all the new icons, visualizations, displays, and so forth: it looks like it was a significant chunk of work.
Korthan Doshu
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-04-28 13:15:01 UTC
This looks like a great improvement! We know that serious industrialists will almost always use external tools to help them work with the system, so dropping the number of clicks necessary for everybody and giving lots of intuitive information for newbros looks like the best way to improve the interface. Good job.
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#52 - 2014-04-28 13:15:50 UTC
I use a certain out of eve tool that calculates everything i need to aquire to make a certain item, would it be possible instead of mousing over, writing down and such to just have a 'copy info to clip board' option?

Then I can just paste that info into my in game note pad or mail it to an alt/colleague who is at a trade hub while i carry on manufacturing/researching ect....
CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2014-04-28 13:16:10 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Looks like this one is a little light on fundamental gameplay changes. The UI looks nice, but really got to actually try it out for a little while before I can say much about how much of an improvement it is. I'm sure there will be an adjustment period but at a minimum this looks way better than the old one, so hopefully it's also easier to use as well.

I am interested in what these are:

"get 'workers' availability information"
and
"see delegation/outsourcing options"

from here: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66065/1/SnI_TaskModel_01.png

Guessing the first is something to do with teams, but what's the second?


A Task Model is the first step of brainstorming where we start very broad term and then scope things down. This Task Model was done to allow us to explore high level concepts which we have since then iterated on quite heavily. It's there to show our methods rather than give an accurate idea of what's coming.

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-04-28 13:16:46 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Also everything will have tooltips if you need additional clarification or information about any element in the UI.


Soo, can the icons be turned into text without having to mouse over all of them one by one?
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#55 - 2014-04-28 13:17:31 UTC
probag Bear wrote:
I I just want to seek confirmation of one thing: we will be able to view/filter blueprints residing in containers inside POS arrays, correct?


Correction: remotely. Will we be able to insert jobs by mats/BPs found at POSs remotely?
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#56 - 2014-04-28 13:17:59 UTC
Why does it show a Myrmidon with a Tech 2 icon on the first blueprint image?
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#57 - 2014-04-28 13:21:46 UTC
Magic Crisp wrote:
probag Bear wrote:
I I just want to seek confirmation of one thing: we will be able to view/filter blueprints residing in containers inside POS arrays, correct?


Correction: remotely. Will we be able to insert jobs by mats/BPs found at POSs remotely?


That's actually a really good point; I just assumed that'd be the case, but looking again, the devblog never confirms it. It would be absolutely terrible if we could not remotely install from BPs inside POS arrays.
Skyylar Solette
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2014-04-28 13:25:23 UTC
I guess my one concern would be making it so that only the base stats show up on BPOs and you have to look at the industry tab to see how long it would take you to build/research that bpo. I mean yes it is consistent but honestly when I'm contemplating building something I don't want to have to go look it up somewhere to figure out how long its going to take me to build. Just clicking on the hyperlink for a BPO and scrolling down and seeing how long it will take ME to build it is far more useful since frankly I DON'T CARE how long it takes an unskilled character to build something.
Sturmwolke
#59 - 2014-04-28 13:25:40 UTC
This looks like a translation or re-skinning the old UI, to a more visual UI. Were the obvious flaws in the old UI addressed thoroughly?
On top of my head two things :

1) No transparency on your total inventory per item when inputting jobs, forcing you to double check the numbers on the inventory screen. This is double work.
There are times when you are more interested in the number of materials remaining in stock. e.g. manufacturing a Shuttle

Current:
Tritanium 2500/2500

What it needs to display:
Tritanium 2500/2500 (Stock : Tritanium 1,345,324)

2) See http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo
Well known to those involved in manufacturing and research. See those ME/PE projections? It should be default ingame.

3) Blog didn't specify if that character slot tracking flaw has been addressed. If a character have 10 slots free, it should show 10/10 (remaining) for quick reference.
It's inane needing to count the number of jobs line by line in order to confirm the number of slots remaining (for that character) if you somehow missed a step or forgot how many had been already queued.
Skyylar Solette
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-04-28 13:26:11 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Why does it show a Myrmidon with a Tech 2 icon on the first blueprint image?


That would be an Eos