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Help finding effects of skill level on attribute

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Dorian Ever
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-04-20 00:08:48 UTC
Hi everyone,
My first dive into the static data export, I'm just looking to figure out what attribute the skills relate to. Currently I can find a skill like, small projectile turret, and find that it affects the damage multiplier of 5%... but I don't see how to tell what that 5% should be multiplied against.

My method
Skill is typeID from invTypes where attributeID is 275
Use typeID to look up attributes and their values

I then have the required skills, primary/secondary learning thing, time learning amount, required skills and damage multiplier bonus.

I don't quite see how to know that the small projectile turrents multiplier bonus is going towards all projectile damage. Any suggestions?
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#2 - 2014-04-20 07:36:08 UTC
The SDE doesn't contain that part of the information.
Dorian Ever
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-04-20 07:48:10 UTC
How might I go about computing the dps of a ship with a players skill set, like Pyfa, if that information isn't provided?
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#4 - 2014-04-20 08:14:07 UTC
I don't know how Pyfa does it, for EveHQ we have our own little DB of these attribute mappings. You can see an example here.

I guess it's possible that this info could be found by scraping the client cache, but I don't know that.
KnifeOrSpoon
Contraposition Industries Inc
#5 - 2014-04-25 09:44:00 UTC
Hey all,

I just had a read of this and recalled a few new SQL databases I created a few weeks ago from Rubicon SDE. I've seperated out the Attributes and AttributeTypes tables into skill, module, structure specfics so these table names will be odd for you.

The following query on my tables:

SELECT
invSkillAttributes.typeID,
invSkillAttributeTypes.attributeName,
invSkillAttributes.attributeValue
FROM invSkillAttributes
INNER JOIN invSkillAttributeTypes ON invSkillAttributeTypes.attributeID=invSkillAttributes.attributeID
WHERE
invSkillAttributes.typeID=3315 -- Surgical Strike skill

Yields the following result:

typeID attributeName attributeValue
3315 primaryAttribute 167
3315 secondaryAttribute 168
3315 requiredSkill1 3300
3315 skillTimeConstant 4
3315 requiredSkill1Level 4
3315 damageMultiplierBonus 3

The invType.description field for the skill typeID 3315 is:

Knowledge of spaceships' structural weaknesses. 3% bonus per skill level to the damage of all weapon turrets.

Could you use the above to achieve what you are looking for?
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#6 - 2014-04-25 14:08:07 UTC
KnifeOrSpoon wrote:
Could you use the above to achieve what you are looking for?

Not really. The crucial point is having the information "3% bonus per skill level to the damage of all weapon turrets." in an exact format with which the program can calculate, instead of the human-readable form. But since the info is only partially present in the SDE in "computer-readable" form, you will need some kind of extra input.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2014-04-25 14:24:50 UTC
Wait, so whats missing from the SDE that you need?

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#8 - 2014-04-25 14:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Wait, so whats missing from the SDE that you need?

A way to link what a skill effects and how.

This is tricky because some skills effect different ships and structures differently and while "effects fire rate of only small guns" works in a sentence. "Only small guns" does not have a column in the SDE. or a key to interpreter the coding into that statement.

Looks like a huge table with all skills and all effected module types / structure actions is needed.

Edit: grammer

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2014-04-25 14:50:26 UTC
Salpun wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Wait, so whats missing from the SDE that you need?

A way to link what a skill effects and how.

This is tricky because some skills effect different ships and structures differently and while "effects fire rate of only small guns" works in a sentence. "Only small guns" does not have a column in the SDE. or a key to interpreter the coding into that statement.

Looks like a huge table with all skills and all effected module types / structure actions is needed.

Edit: grammer


There should be a dogma effects table that links all of that. I thought it was in the SDE.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#10 - 2014-04-25 15:09:16 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Wait, so whats missing from the SDE that you need?

A way to link what a skill effects and how.

This is tricky because some skills effect different ships and structures differently and while "effects fire rate of only small guns" works in a sentence. "Only small guns" does not have a column in the SDE. or a key to interpreter the coding into that statement.

Looks like a huge table with all skills and all effected module types / structure actions is needed.

Edit: grammer


There should be a dogma effects table that links all of that. I thought it was in the SDE.


I would thinks so to, I don't know the SDE well enough.

The game and support documentation as a lot of these gaps in the Info/ ease of access to info flow. The gaps are getting worked on however. A good example of this is the presentation of rocks and what they processes into in game. Show info on rocks say they refine into X minerals. The minerals show info does not say go mine these rocks and refine them to get me.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#11 - 2014-04-25 20:59:08 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Wait, so whats missing from the SDE that you need?
Ok, here goes.
For everything (skills, ships, modules and implants):
The information which attributeID on which items is affected by each bonus is missing.

Additionally for ships:
Ship bonus attributes are missing unitIDs, also the typeID of the skill that's responsible for the ship bonus (e.g. Caldari Frigate) is missing.

Additionally for modules:
Info if a bonus is subject to stacking penalty is missing.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Quote:
There should be a dogma effects table that links all of that. I thought it was in the SDE.
I have read that there are indeed dogma tables that can be scraped from the client which aren't in the SDE which contain at least some, maybe all of that missing information. Apparently one of them is called dgmExpressions.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#12 - 2014-04-25 22:26:39 UTC
It's not a simple thing to do.

If you're needing this for, say, a web based project, look into libdogma https://github.com/Artefact2/libdogma (I'm using it with php-dogma https://github.com/Artefact2/php-dogma and there's also a python binding for it)

Just be aware that it's AGPL, so you have to release under a compatible license, to anyone that uses your service.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2014-04-26 12:38:05 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Wait, so whats missing from the SDE that you need?
Ok, here goes.
For everything (skills, ships, modules and implants):
The information which attributeID on which items is affected by each bonus is missing.

Additionally for ships:
Ship bonus attributes are missing unitIDs, also the typeID of the skill that's responsible for the ship bonus (e.g. Caldari Frigate) is missing.

Additionally for modules:
Info if a bonus is subject to stacking penalty is missing.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Quote:
There should be a dogma effects table that links all of that. I thought it was in the SDE.
I have read that there are indeed dogma tables that can be scraped from the client which aren't in the SDE which contain at least some, maybe all of that missing information. Apparently one of them is called dgmExpressions.


THANK YOU! I have been trying to ask people what is missing from the SDE but everyone said they didn't know. I will see if I can get that added and report back probably at Fanfest during my presentation.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#14 - 2014-04-27 08:32:15 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
THANK YOU! I have been trying to ask people what is missing from the SDE but everyone said they didn't know. I will see if I can get that added and report back probably at Fanfest during my presentation.

Awesome! I hope your presentation will be available on stream or youtube.
Aineko Macx
#15 - 2014-07-24 13:43:48 UTC