Ships & Modules

Ok, I would like to trade one of the lows on my coercer for another medium because one medium-slot ships are pretty terrible and it's like impossible to kill something without a point and propulsion module. Retribution would be happy with the same deal. Please make it happen so my Coercer (and future Retribution) will actually be able to point something while maintaining a MWD/AB!

Thank you!!

That's not gonna be very good at catching things, and it will be even worse for the destroyer. It's just too hard to function as a small ship with only 1 medium.

Solo -> Vengeance.
In fleet you have tacklers.
You need to use the right tool for the right job.

Get a wingman buddy. EvE is not designed to play solo all the time.

Fit for max damage, get a buddy in a vengeance to do the tackling.

So .. you want a Catalyst's layout. In that case can the Cormorant trade a mid for a low? To share the same slot layout of the Thrasher? Also change the Flycatcher's layout, the Sabre's 4/2 would be nice. If the Heretic won't stick with the slot layout tradition (It is a heretic after all) with 3/3 instead of 1/5, then there is no reason for the Coercer/Cormorant/Flycatcher to stick with theirs.

The good old "everything happens for a reason", "everything was designed for a purpose" argument.

No, not everything happens for a reason. Maybe the devs had a purpose in mind when they designed these two ships, but just because they had been designed for a reason doesn't mean they were well-designed.

These "tools" may have been designed with some purpose in mind, but they are poorly designed tools, bent and broken and inferior in their function to alternatives due to the one medium slot.

So that was just a combination of ad hominem and straw man and it completely ignored my legitimate concerns that you either failed to comprehend as a valid response to your argument or just refused to acknowledge as legitimate concerns (which they are).

Quite simply, no you're wrong. Small one-medium ships do not function in this game when you only have two of them, and every other small ship is a better alternative simply because of the fact that you need a propulsion mod and you need a point as a bare minimum for a small pvp ship to accomplish anything practically useful.

The problem with one-med-slot wonders in PvP combat:

• FCs will laugh you out of their fleet if you don't have a point or scram fitted.
• FCs in frigate gangs will also laugh you out of their fleet if you don't have some sort of propulsion module fitted (because you then lose any ability to control range).

Apparently the intent of the Retri or Coercer was to fit a point or scram and just use crystal swaps to counter any opponent trying to pull away. However, this doesn't deal with the problem of speedy, afterburning frigates getting deep under your guns and out-tracking you into oblivion. (A 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II has a base tracking of 0.417 rad/s and a Light Electron Blaster II has a base tracking of 0.438 rad/s, which is a not-exactly-insignificant edge over the 0.308 rad/s base tracking of a Gatling Pulse Laser II especially considering the fact that these ships are unlikely to be fitting high tracking weapons, although the Coercer's 10%/level tracking bonus makes this less problematic.)

As a result, even if you have a scram to shut down MWDs, you are not going to be able to stop AB or dualprop frigates from getting in under your guns, and you will also be unable to kite drones yourself or get in under the guns of larger ships with propmods fitted.


Never mind that the Jag has Minmatar T2 resists AND the speed needed to out-track you (and often fits 125mm/150mm guns due to the fact the only AF with less PG is the Ishkur)...can you see a Holder's bad day in the making?

The Coercer is kind of okay. You don't expect Destroyers to tackle stuff, but just to kill frigates quickly from range and the Coercer does that well.

The Retribution does roughly half the dps of the Coercer now. At the same ranges, with much better tracking. There is no point to the Retribution. A second mid is WAY more useful than a fifth low slot. It either needs to do a LOT more dps to be worthwhile flying or just get that second mid slot.

"do a LOT more dps" as in: +1 turret, 10% damage bonus instead of 5%, extra grid and especially cpu (so it can actually fit multiple heatsinks and make good use of its low slots). With those bonuses it would just about match a Coercer in dps, and trade tracking for durability and low signature.