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Burn Jita haz a date!!

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#181 - 2014-04-26 13:46:56 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that ganking is nothing but zero-risk, maximum reward EvE on easy-mode. But hey, not everyone plays computer games for the challenge.


The only ones who view it this way have never actually done any suicide ganking. There is plenty of risk in for-profit suicide ganking: you can fail a gank and not get anything, you can successfully gank a target and the valuable loot is evaporated by the 50% drop chance, you can successfully gank a target and get a desirable drop but have your hauler blown up when it goes suspect for looting the wreck, the wreck can be ninja-looted, etc etc

But I guess you'll handwave all of those things or ignore them and say "WELL THAT DOESN'T MAKE SUICIDE GANKING RISK FREE"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#182 - 2014-04-26 13:52:15 UTC
Andski wrote:

But I guess you'll handwave all of those things or ignore them and say "WELL THAT DOESN'T MAKE SUICIDE GANKING RISK FREE"


Of course he will, his agenda demands it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#183 - 2014-04-26 14:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
It's literally the riskiest profession in the game when you think about it: success depends on a random number generator, you can fail simply because somebody with ECM or damps was nearby, getting ISK out of it requires you to haul that valuable loot and risk getting suicide ganked yourself, etc. but idiots will ignore the actual work involved in suicide ganking and pretend that ISK shows up in your wallet the moment you lock a freighter and press F1, because they have an agenda for removing all PvP from hisec.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#184 - 2014-04-26 16:10:37 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Those that play EvE solo for all the things that have nothing to do with PvP will continue to do so regardless.
Bearing in mind that PvP is not limited to explosions, which things in Eve have nothing to do with PvP?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#185 - 2014-04-26 19:45:24 UTC
Andski wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that ganking is nothing but zero-risk, maximum reward EvE on easy-mode. But hey, not everyone plays computer games for the challenge.


The only ones who view it this way have never actually done any suicide ganking. There is plenty of risk in for-profit suicide ganking: you can fail a gank and not get anything, you can successfully gank a target and the valuable loot is evaporated by the 50% drop chance, you can successfully gank a target and get a desirable drop but have your hauler blown up when it goes suspect for looting the wreck, the wreck can be ninja-looted, etc etc

But I guess you'll handwave all of those things or ignore them and say "WELL THAT DOESN'T MAKE SUICIDE GANKING RISK FREE"


Yeah like that one freighter I watched yesterday survive like 4 attempts on it lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#186 - 2014-04-26 21:18:47 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:

You'll notice no-one argues against my opinions on ganking, that it's EvE on easy mode, and that its completely risk free. Thats because everyone knows thats the case. It would be refreshing for gankers to admit that, for a change.


How is a 100% chance to lose your ship risk free? Just because they choose to legislate for that risk, and factor it in to their "cost of doing buisness" does not make it any less of a ship loss.


Who gives a **** about losing a cat. You can take part in a gank for less than a million isk.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#187 - 2014-04-26 21:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
It's not a risk if you understand it to be a guaranteed loss.

it's only a risk if there's a potential you will/won't lose your ship.

If it's a gauranteed loss, then it's just the cost, not a risk.
Dave stark
#188 - 2014-04-26 21:25:47 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
It's not a risk if you understand it to be a guaranteed loss.

it's only a risk if there's a potential you will/won't lose your ship.

If it's a gauranteed loss, then it's just the cost, not a risk.


google provided me with this definition of risk: "the possibility of financial loss."
until suicide ganking instantly refunds you the cost of your ship+fittings upon being concorded.... there is risk.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#189 - 2014-04-26 21:30:06 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
It's not a risk if you understand it to be a guaranteed loss.

it's only a risk if there's a potential you will/won't lose your ship.

If it's a gauranteed loss, then it's just the cost, not a risk.


google provided me with this definition of risk: "the possibility of financial loss."
until suicide ganking instantly refunds you the cost of your ship+fittings upon being concorded.... there is risk.


It's called a suicide gank because your dying isn't a "risk", it's an understanding that your ship will be destroyed.

Because you understand you will die, a "suicide" gank, then it's essentially paying for a gank.
Dave stark
#190 - 2014-04-26 21:32:58 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
It's not a risk if you understand it to be a guaranteed loss.

it's only a risk if there's a potential you will/won't lose your ship.

If it's a gauranteed loss, then it's just the cost, not a risk.


google provided me with this definition of risk: "the possibility of financial loss."
until suicide ganking instantly refunds you the cost of your ship+fittings upon being concorded.... there is risk.


It's called a suicide gank because your dying isn't a "risk", it's an understanding that your ship will be destroyed.

Because you understand you will die, a "suicide" gank, then it's essentially paying for a gank.



yes, and when i pay to play a hand of poker i'm still taking a risk that i'm getting something out of it.

making a payment =/= removal of risk.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#191 - 2014-04-26 21:35:19 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
It's not a risk if you understand it to be a guaranteed loss.

it's only a risk if there's a potential you will/won't lose your ship.

If it's a gauranteed loss, then it's just the cost, not a risk.


google provided me with this definition of risk: "the possibility of financial loss."
until suicide ganking instantly refunds you the cost of your ship+fittings upon being concorded.... there is risk.


It's called a suicide gank because your dying isn't a "risk", it's an understanding that your ship will be destroyed.

Because you understand you will die, a "suicide" gank, then it's essentially paying for a gank.



yes, and when i pay to play a hand of poker i'm still taking a risk that i'm getting something out of it.

making a payment =/= removal of risk.


No, it's more like going to the grocery store and purchasing a gallon of milk for $1.69. Getting that gallon of milk wasn't a risk because you understood you were going to have to pay for it.
Dave stark
#192 - 2014-04-26 21:41:58 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
It's not a risk if you understand it to be a guaranteed loss.

it's only a risk if there's a potential you will/won't lose your ship.

If it's a gauranteed loss, then it's just the cost, not a risk.


google provided me with this definition of risk: "the possibility of financial loss."
until suicide ganking instantly refunds you the cost of your ship+fittings upon being concorded.... there is risk.


It's called a suicide gank because your dying isn't a "risk", it's an understanding that your ship will be destroyed.

Because you understand you will die, a "suicide" gank, then it's essentially paying for a gank.



yes, and when i pay to play a hand of poker i'm still taking a risk that i'm getting something out of it.

making a payment =/= removal of risk.


No, it's more like going to the grocery store and purchasing a gallon of milk for $1.69. Getting that gallon of milk wasn't a risk because you understood you were going to have to pay for it.


no it isn't.
when i go to the grocery store and purchase a gallon of milk, there isn't a 50% chance that i don't get a gallon of milk.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#193 - 2014-04-26 21:45:43 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
It's called a suicide gank because your dying isn't a "risk", it's an understanding that your ship will be destroyed.

Because you understand you will die, a "suicide" gank, then it's essentially paying for a gank.


so by dumb pubbie logic, a 95% chance of losing your ship upon engaging would not be "essentially paying for a gank" but just really risky

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#194 - 2014-04-26 21:46:39 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


no it isn't.
when i go to the grocery store and purchase a gallon of milk, there isn't a 50% chance that i don't get a gallon of milk.


Well then maybe you should considering going to a store that gaurantees they'll sell you what you pay for.

(Better fit your suicide gank ship, Bring a better suicide gank ship, or bring friends with good enough gank ships)

The only reason the "risk" exists is because you don't take the steps necessary to ensure it's being successful.

What you're describing isn't a "suicide gank". It's a "stupid gank" attempt.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#195 - 2014-04-26 21:47:45 UTC
Andski wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
It's called a suicide gank because your dying isn't a "risk", it's an understanding that your ship will be destroyed.

Because you understand you will die, a "suicide" gank, then it's essentially paying for a gank.


so by dumb pubbie logic, a 95% chance of losing your ship upon engaging would not be "essentially paying for a gank" but just really risky


It's only a 95% chance if you don't take the steps necessary to ensure it's a 100%.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#196 - 2014-04-26 21:48:26 UTC
notice how divine entervention completely avoids discussing the real risks in suicide ganking (failing the gank entirely, loot roll going against your favor, losing the hauler moving the goods to market) and sticks to the concord loss

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Dave stark
#197 - 2014-04-26 21:48:56 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


no it isn't.
when i go to the grocery store and purchase a gallon of milk, there isn't a 50% chance that i don't get a gallon of milk.


Well then maybe you should considering going to a store that gaurantees they'll sell you what you pay for.

(Better fit your suicide gank ship, Bring a better suicide gank ship, or bring friends with good enough gank ships)

The only reason the "risk" exists is because you don't take the steps necessary to ensure it's being successful.

What you're describing isn't a "suicide gank". It's a "stupid gank" attempt.


no, the reason risk exists is because dropped cargo and modules have a 50% drop rate, not a 100% drop rate.

are you being intentionally dense or are you clueless about game mechanics?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#198 - 2014-04-26 21:50:53 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
The only reason the "risk" exists is because you don't take the steps necessary to ensure it's being successful.

What you're describing isn't a "suicide gank". It's a "stupid gank" attempt.


right

so tell us, guy who doesn't know a damn thing about suicide ganking, how do you take the necessary steps to ensure that the wreck has the valuable goodies you're looking for?

let me help you because you don't seem to understand these things: when you blow up a player's ship, each module and stack in its cargo has a 50% chance of surviving the destruction of the ship and being in the resulting wreck

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#199 - 2014-04-26 21:53:20 UTC
like I said earlier: people who have zero experience with suicide ganking yet denounce it as "too easy" or "risk free" seem to believe that isk shows up in your wallet the moment the target explodes

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#200 - 2014-04-26 21:53:25 UTC
Andski wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
The only reason the "risk" exists is because you don't take the steps necessary to ensure it's being successful.

What you're describing isn't a "suicide gank". It's a "stupid gank" attempt.


right

so tell us, guy who doesn't know a damn thing about suicide ganking, how do you take the necessary steps to ensure that the wreck has the valuable goodies you're looking for?

let me help you because you don't seem to understand these things: when you blow up a player's ship, each module and stack in its cargo has a 50% chance of surviving the destruction of the ship and being in the resulting wreck


Heck I've been in on kills where the freighter/hauler itself has dropped less than 10% of it's value. The loot fairy will getcha.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.