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[Summer 2014] Links Still Dreadful

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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#61 - 2014-04-25 17:05:39 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


Your logi has to be on grid to be effective, this mean he is vulnerable to attacks if the toher team choose to do so. Same for your ECM boat. Links are not OP, they should just not be off-grid. You want an advantage on the field, then bring it on the field. You should totally have an advantage if you get friends to help you with any type of support as long as that support is also in the fight like ECM and logis. Putting your Logi on the line gives you remote rep on the field, putting your E-war ship on the line gives you e-war on the field, getting link support should require your linking ship to be on the field.

The guy with more preparation will still have the advantage but the other side can work it's fight plan to adjust to it and try to counter it just like they can primary logi or e-war ships. It force a decision to be made.


A very nice consequence of bringing links on grid is they have to also fit for a combat environment then. 6-Link t3's usually sacrifice too much fitting to be viable on grid, but a 1 or 2 link t3 can be combat viable while fielding links. This reduces the stacking of links, which will go quite far in bringing their current bonus levels inline.



This just shows your ignorance on the issue. there is no such thing as a 6 link t3.


6-Link Tengu: Nullified and Covert.

[Tengu, ATX Tough Links]
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Caldari Navy Co-Processor

Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I

Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency II
Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II
Information Warfare Link - Recon Operation II
Information Warfare Link - Electronic Superiority II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Tengu Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#62 - 2014-04-25 17:08:43 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


Your logi has to be on grid to be effective, this mean he is vulnerable to attacks if the toher team choose to do so. Same for your ECM boat. Links are not OP, they should just not be off-grid. You want an advantage on the field, then bring it on the field. You should totally have an advantage if you get friends to help you with any type of support as long as that support is also in the fight like ECM and logis. Putting your Logi on the line gives you remote rep on the field, putting your E-war ship on the line gives you e-war on the field, getting link support should require your linking ship to be on the field.

The guy with more preparation will still have the advantage but the other side can work it's fight plan to adjust to it and try to counter it just like they can primary logi or e-war ships. It force a decision to be made.


A very nice consequence of bringing links on grid is they have to also fit for a combat environment then. 6-Link t3's usually sacrifice too much fitting to be viable on grid, but a 1 or 2 link t3 can be combat viable while fielding links. This reduces the stacking of links, which will go quite far in bringing their current bonus levels inline.



This just shows your ignorance on the issue. there is no such thing as a 6 link t3.


WOW Shocked

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-04-25 17:10:57 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:

This just shows your ignorance on the issue. there is no such thing as a 6 link t3.

um.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#64 - 2014-04-25 17:14:08 UTC
and i like how everyone says the answer to enemies with links is bring ur own links. that always makes for interesting and dynamic game play...oh wait.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Vadeim Rizen
TYR.
Exodus.
#65 - 2014-04-25 17:17:03 UTC
I stand corrected, but nobody would fly that fit solo because it would get probed out with a single cycle. as your fit is titled, tourney links dont much matter for getting probed out but i dont know anyone who would use that roaming.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#66 - 2014-04-25 17:47:24 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:
I stand corrected, but nobody would fly that fit solo because it would get probed out with a single cycle. as your fit is titled, tourney links dont much matter for getting probed out but i dont know anyone who would use that roaming.


As for the title, it is irrelevant to the fit. I just stripped the first fit in front of me and created a 6-link t3 to correct your false assumption.

Why would they use this fit? Before links were forced out of POS FFs, these were extremely common in FW, and are still used today. Why are they used today? Maybe they feel their deep safes will keep them safe. Maybe they have a Deathstar POS to orbit in shelter. Maybe they aren't worried about being probed out, as they stay cloaked until they are needed. Maybe they are a highsec alt and boosting friends in a war. We both know people min/max in this game, and this is just an example players will go to.

Also, you show your ignorance when you claim someone is "soloing" with links. There is NO SUCH THING as soloing with links. This is a contradiction, and no different than saying I'm soloing with logistics (except links are more potent, less obvious, and uncounterable).

Links, in their current state, are overpowered.
Vadeim Rizen
TYR.
Exodus.
#67 - 2014-04-25 18:11:33 UTC
I can agree with some of what you're saying, just not all of it. I agree that links in a 1v1 format are overpowered. if a person agrees to 1v1 then links should be obsolete. I think something that would solve that is in a duel links become innefective for the players that are involved in the duel. However my style of gameplay is to never assume anyone is solo whether it be they have links or have a cloaky falcon or have friends waiting on the other side.... having links enables you to still take a fight even if outnumbered. If someone is hiding their links away at a pos you can try to get the fight on the other side of the gate. There are things you can do.

I think I would actually like the idea of if there is a dual offered/accepted then links become innefective for the duration of the duel. But to roam around and fight assuming somebody doesn't have links is exactly like assuming someone doens't have cloaky help or a buddy in system ready to come in for a gank. Just because you dont like links or dont have a link alt doesn't mean that the game play should change based on your preference.

A change like that would satisfy both parties IMO. People who want true 1v1 fights get theirs, people who understand that nothing in eve is fair and want a chance to still be able to take a fight even when outnumbered can still have their links.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#68 - 2014-04-25 18:18:11 UTC
Mobile Telemetry Disruptor, shuts off all link boost effects within its AoE.

You flying inside AoE? You no get links.

Fozzie, make it happen. Plz. :)

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-04-25 18:21:09 UTC
A kill from last month had this:

[Tengu, Tengu]
Gravimetric Firewall
Brynn's Modified Co-Processor
Cormack's Modified Co-Processor
Thon's Modified Co-Processor

Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I

Information Warfare Link - Electronic Superiority II
Information Warfare Link - Recon Operation II
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II
Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

IIRC he forgot to cloak off a gate.
I've got two links pilots and links are hugely overpowered whether they're on grid or off.
Vadeim Rizen
TYR.
Exodus.
#70 - 2014-04-25 18:27:40 UTC
that seems painfully expensive for a link boat =/
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#71 - 2014-04-25 18:38:46 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:
that seems painfully expensive for a link boat =/

Unless you do something stupid (like forget to cloak off gate, or something) you almost never lose them. People get spendy.

Again, comes back to risk vs reward which OGB's break.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#72 - 2014-04-25 18:40:29 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Mobile Telemetry Disruptor, shuts off all link boost effects within its AoE.

You flying inside AoE? You no get links.

Fozzie, make it happen. Plz. :)


if the AoE is system wide, then cool. lol.

@vadeim

my issue with links is the mechanic, affecting the stats of other ships by ur mere presence in system, is just plain bad. The booster does not even have to fly their ship. They can be afk or alt-tabbed and still fully effective. Where drone assist was altered because it promoted minimal input from players, alt boosting is another mechanic that requires minimal input from a player.

The counter to boosters is 'bring ur own booster', which i do, but as far as mechanics go, thats horrible. Compare it to counters to logi being 'alpha' fleets or a counter to ECM being drones. Not bring more logi, nor bring more ECM.

The min/max behavior of players and the way this works, u either choose to boost or fight, but rarely is it worth it to have a ship both boosting and in combat.

Putting links on grid will be a massive improvement, but i'd still prefer the command pilot to do more than 'push button-receive EHP boost and mad reps'. And if links cant be put on grid, i'd rather they just be taken out the game.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#73 - 2014-04-25 18:42:37 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:
that seems painfully expensive for a link boat =/


imagine it in hi-sec bro.

we had neutrals suicide gank our enemies command boosts. wasnt as blingy as that though

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-04-25 20:12:14 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:
I can agree with some of what you're saying, just not all of it. I agree that links in a 1v1 format are overpowered. if a person agrees to 1v1 then links should be obsolete. I think something that would solve that is in a duel links become innefective for the players that are involved in the duel. However my style of gameplay is to never assume anyone is solo whether it be they have links or have a cloaky falcon or have friends waiting on the other side.... having links enables you to still take a fight even if outnumbered. If someone is hiding their links away at a pos you can try to get the fight on the other side of the gate. There are things you can do.

I think I would actually like the idea of if there is a dual offered/accepted then links become innefective for the duration of the duel. But to roam around and fight assuming somebody doesn't have links is exactly like assuming someone doens't have cloaky help or a buddy in system ready to come in for a gank. Just because you dont like links or dont have a link alt doesn't mean that the game play should change based on your preference.

A change like that would satisfy both parties IMO. People who want true 1v1 fights get theirs, people who understand that nothing in eve is fair and want a chance to still be able to take a fight even when outnumbered can still have their links.


The only real issue is the fact an AFK player can be a game changer in a fight. The only "power" I am willing to give afk player is the fear they might not be AFK. Anybody in local can jump in a fight to change it's course. The guy you see in local could cyno stuff on you, he could warp to the fight and throw his grain of salt in it but all of that require any ship to get on grid. The cyno'd ships even if they can be brough in off grid still ahve to get on grid before they have a real effect on the fight, they guy also can't EWAR/REP/shoot from off grid, he has to get in.

The link ship is completely effective without the ship being on the line. That's where the mechanic is wrong.
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
#75 - 2014-04-25 20:35:33 UTC
CCP have already said links are slated to be moved on grid....

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#76 - 2014-04-26 00:29:12 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.

The Rules:
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)