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yeah, who would have thought one of the foremost authorities on Eve: Online economics and gameplay would be posting so many correct things in this thread

If EVE were purely a sandbox, there wouldn't be skills to train, nor any PVE content, nor NPC's ....

EVE works as a game ecosystem because it is a hybrid of multiple game types - sandbox, pve, everything in between ... it can suck in people who would never try PVP, and gradually expose them to it and even get them to try it.

With such an amazingly integrated game system that is able to draw in players of all types, why would anyone want to destroy that by restricting certain types of gameplay? No amount of forcing will get non-pvp players to magically convert into pvp players (they'll simply go elsewhere) ... might as well instead maintain a game system complex and deep enough to allow both types to thrive, with even the non-pvp players being subject to various levels of pvp depending on what activities they participate in.

I'm totally sympathetic to the idea that nullsec could already be doing more industry if they tried harder. But they really do have risks and costs that highsec producers don't have, and those are part of why it's easier for them to just import from highsec. CCP clearly perceives this to be the case and wants to remedy that.

because perusing the eve-o forums i find nearly every day that i know more about everything than 95% of eve players so it is a fairly safe bet i know more about what they would like than they do

Ugh... the arrogance! To think that you know what I enjoy more than I know what I enjoy?

Seriously, can you not see how insane that is?


I see posts from people like "I can't imagine anything more boring that sitting in a belt mining asteroids all day" and I think... yeah, you have the right to not enjoy that. I would never think that I know more than you, what you enjoy.


Why, when you see a post from someone that says they have no interest in PvP, do you think that you know their likes and dislikes more than they do?


ALL your mindset can do is force people to stop playing.


You can not make me play the game the way you want me to play it, because you can not make me play the game!

Because of density. There are tons of way to go around AFK cloakers, search my posts in F&ID and you'll find a list, or search for topics around removing AFK cloaking in F&ID and you find lists. I don't care about AFK cloakers because I have the means to nullify them. If you are incapable of doing that, you should consider playing another game.

You and I are are absolutely on the same page. Any number of people at CCP can issue a dev blog. In fact, several have been issued since this iteration was authored. I am just flabbergasted that CCP issued pure advertising as we grow more frustrated with the silence in this arena.

I was thinking of setting up my first POS this weekend. It would be pretty much exclusively for ME/PE research, BPCs and soon some T2 invention, but I'm not sure it will be worth it with these changes.

I farm/make my own charters and fuel, and to me it's worth the 100M or so a month to not wait 30 days for a research slot even in my somewhat remote home system, and my understanding is currently you don't even need to expose your BPOs if your POS is in the same system, or close system with the right science skills. However, with these changes let me get this straight:

1) The time I spent farming faction standing will almost be completely wasted
2) I'll still need to fuel and charter my POS
3) My BPOs will now be vulnerable when transporting, or having my corp war decced and POS attacked if I can't be online for a couple days and can't retrieve my BPOs in time.
4) I'll have to pay the same NPC tax as I would using the soon to be unlimited and completely safe NPC facilities.

Someone please tell me why I should bother having a POS after these changes? Unless we are getting some huge bonus somewhere I haven't seen, it seems to me to be a no brainer to *maybe* pay an up to 14% surcharge to have complete safety and save 100M or so a month on fuel and charters.

Yep... Spent a bunch of time on F&ID, trying to wade through the hundreds of threads, all quickly locked by ISD as duplicate.

Didn't see and lists of ideas, but....
1) It is clear that CCP has no intention of cloaky camping.
2) this isn't the game for me.

I'll be cancelling auto resubscribe again. No reason to pay for 4 accounts to sit in station or POS because there is STILL nothing that can be done about cloaky camping.


I've quit for this before, a couple time. 6 months go by, I start to miss my friends that play... I think, meh, let's play EVE again. I resub accounts. I get set up somewhere.... then a cloaky shows up, I'm unable to play..... so I again drop sub....



Peace out.... again.

Tell you what.
How does this sound?

CCP gets rid of cloaky campers as soon as they get rid of suicide ganking in high sec.
While I understand your frustration with a cloaky camper, I don't believe it is any more risky than running around in a high value ship in some high sec chokepoints, or mining in many systems, particularly those where the Code griefers hang out.

And I like to see you have accepted that null sec has just been gifted the small size, high end value item markets.
50,000 DCII's easily fit in a JF, and based on what I am seeing, that is a product that null sec has a massive massive advantage RIGHT NOW building, let alone after these changes are made.

Someone posted that current round trip costs for a JF is about 45 million.
(edit. Bad math, slipped a digit.)
If you are moving 10 billion ISK of product (say 20000 DCII's at their new null sec price of 500,000), that 45 million now becomes, what 0.45% transportation cost?

And it gets even better.
If you really want to keep your costs (and risk) down, just use a black ops cyno to jump a Viator into a low sec system with a cargo hold of 10,000 cu m, which holds those 2000 DCII's. The Amarr and Jita market move about 10,000 combined daily. How many are actually consumed is another matter. One of the chief architects of these changes said about 5000.
So it would be dead easy for an enterprising null sec group, with strict controls and a huge reach ingame, to completely corner the DCII market and price out of existence every high sec manufacturer.