Player Features and Ideas Discussion

plenty of ppl are unhappy where heavies are, but ppl still use them.
plenty of ppl are unhappy about the BC nerf, but ppl still use drakes and canes.

The rattler has shifted from countering everything, to smashing larger targets. but it is still as powerful as any other battleship at hitting frigs. No it doesnt get the same benefit from e-war and the likes, thats just not what its for anymore. but dont worry, u can still use a domi.

It's not that lights and mediums are unbalanced.

Clearly they are not. However, on this particular ship, with it's universal missile bonus and monster tank, it would be very OP.

So far as I know the only lower weight ships capable of fielding anything near 15 weapons in space are some of the Battlecruisers and Destroyers, the best of which have slightly over 9 equivalent weapons, and fairly weak tanks.

Even using unbonused drones, the ship is capable of fielding 12.5 weapons of any size with excellent application at pretty much any range inside of 60km without any further mods. Likely 80km with the most likely use of the utility high. Other than lock time this absolutely eclipses every function of a destroyer, and it's not looking good for Battlecruisers like the hurricane either. That with a tank that the lower ship classes cannot even dream of.

The beauty of that is unlike missiles, drones can be brought in and re-deployed on the fly, which means you can switch between unbonused drones to larger bonused ones near instantly. The reverse bonus situation is just as bad on paper, but if you shipped out with unbonused launchers you were stuck with them until you docked again. Either way you can fit to engage smaller targets with absolutely murderous intent, but the way the bonuses are set up now you retain more flexibility for doing so since Fury Missiles tend to be intended for the next weight class up and not great on targets your own size.

All they need do is fix the poor scaling of the superdrone bonus to the battleship weight class, and the ship will be amazing.

It has nothing to do with Rapid Missile Launchers.

While range would be an issue, fitting just T2 Rocket Launchers would make this ship an executioner for anything trying to tackle it. The bonus allows for that, and it's a drop in the bucket for fitting resources.

Regardless of Rapid Launchers, this thing puts out 12.5 effective weapons if you launch unbonused mediums and fit 5 Heavy Assault launchers.

At either tier, if range is a consideration you can simply fit standard Light or Heavy launchers. It's still 12.5 weapons in space delivered as if from a ship of a smaller size but with a tank notable even among battleships.

The only thing you get from adding Rapid Launchers is more effective killing power on smaller hulls. You get plenty just from standard launchers and unbonused drones.

The issue with that is the same reason that the Typhoon Fleet Issue doesn't have any drone bonus, but is often fitted with 3 DDA's. While fitting one to fully use it's weapon systems is difficult (2-3 slot tanks are common on some TFI fits), when done, the thing is a monster, even without a drone bonus.

Personally, I'm content to wait until it's available on the test server. If your concerns prove valid, I'm sure plenty of people will be complaining, as there are more than enough people interested in it.

I was not aware of the issues on the Typhoon Fleet issue,
But I see how balance concerns could be there.
But this is the Rattlesnake, a ship whose primary system is drones, that has had them downgraded to a secondary system.
We can assume that is the intention, but that may not be correct.
We do not need the ship to appear on the test system to realise that the missile side of the equation is far more capable than the drone side.
So we are hoping to raise the issue before it gets to such a late stage.

IMO, Sentries were only added to the Snake to try and placate those who have until now used it as a sniping Pve Drone boat.
Heavy drones are in most cases completely unsuitable for Pve and it is yet to be seen if the Gila with its medium drones remains capable of current roles it is used in. This is highly unlikely as many used Sentries for sniping with the Gila.

Personally I would gladly sacrifice part of the new missile bonus on both Gila and Snake for 5 m bandwidth on Gila, 25 m to Drone bay on Snake.
Drop 1 Launcher, keep 10% bonus to missiles - 50% Role bonus to Lights for Gila and Snake.

This just refers back to the superdrone thing and the lack of damage bonuses on meds and small. Superdrones aren't going away so I don't think it's worth talking about. Anyway, the original point was made about heavy/sentry capacity, and that isn't changing - indeed, since you talk only of taking a flight of heavies and a flight of sentries, it's increasing. I'm entirely happy with a bigger drone bonus to make up for the loss of flexibility, although for anything more than eight effective drones it'll almost certainly ahve to be compensated by the loss of a launcher.



Yes, it really is that simple. Of course you can dictate range - because of course you or a gangmate has web and scramble - otherwise, what are you doing thinking about PVPing using heavy drones from an immobile BS?

I think you've got this all backwards, you seem to be only talking from a victim's perspective, and it's entirely unsurprising that PVE fits don't work in PVP. Fitting a MJD will force your target to come into hard tackle range. If the HAC that you refer to burns up close to scramble you, you hard tackle it, neut it and deploy your heavies... and hope that your support is better than his support.

If it doesn't let itself get hard tackled, then you never deploy the heavies in the first place - you carry on with sentries and MJD the hell outa there whenever you like.

Arthur, I would be happy with a great missile boat or a great drone boat. I would be most happy with a boat that could be either and do both roles well depending on fitting choices. As it stands? This sort of wierd mishmash is not so appealing though.. Maybe i'm not doing it right

I disagree on a number of points.

First, there is the damage of unbonused light drones. Few frigates that are not assault or faction ships put 5 weapons in space, in fact few match that at all. While you will be capable of dealing with a huge array of enemies, it's not like a full rack of drones is weak for dealing with frigate class targets in any case. LMJD and drone control range can't be ignored here either. No matter what, you are not forced to use undersized launchers to deal significant damage to smaller targets, though if the superdrone bonus is left as it is that decision will be significantly reinforced to the detriment of the hull as a whole.

Second, there are few ways to improve drones, and of the methods available most either don't work or are really not needed by smaller drones. There is little point to Omni's when fielding light drones, and not much more on mediums. The primary use of the Omni is for sentries, with an honorable mention to frigate blapping heavies lucky enough to catch their target. There is little point in the Drone Navigation computer for lights (in fact it hurts in a few ways, sometimes I have a hard time recalling warriors because of it), and again mediums don't really need them. Only with heavies do DNC make any real impact, and not much then. Rigs are not much better, with only sentries benefitting from the damage rig, and only sentries getting any real benefit from the range and tracking rigs. The new DDA's, and of course the Link Augmentors are the real boosts.

Similarly, there is not much in the way that boosts missiles beyond Ballistic Controls either. Missiles at all sizes do benefit from rigs, and while the benefit is not as great as an Omni, mid-slot competition is cut down because Target Painters are effective for both Drones and Missiles.

Where drones will lose out on little benefit from skipping rigs, missiles do benefit so there is little conflict there. I suspect both damage rigs will fit, though that decision may have to be weighed with the benefit of some Rigors and Flares. That decision is hard, because sentries are so useful over heavies, but ultimately lies with the preferences of the pilot as drone tracking and range is a consideration for sentries as well. A balanced approach may wind up being 2 each of Missile damage, Drone Damage, and Drone Tracking (or one drone tracking and a Damage Control) in the lows, with the rigs devoted to missile application.

There is no reason the two systems cannot be balanced in their use and contribute equally to the offensive capability of the ship. There is also the option of focusing on the ship's shields for some absolutely silly tank ability and just using the natural excellence of the two best applying weapon systems in the game to get the job done.

I think you have said this far far better than I did. I am in complete agreement. this is how it should be. Tiny changes as already indicated, and getting the drone side back into balance, and there is a wonderful ship that will fit in with the other pirate vessels.

I hope we can get there.