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Risk vs Reward in EVE Online is Unbalanced

Author
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#1 - 2014-04-25 08:38:08 UTC
Risk vs Reward in EVE Online is Unbalanced – Supposition and a Proposed Solution.

SUPPOSITION:
Risk in EVE Online is no longer accurately reflected by the System Security Status.
Per the Risk vs Reward Philosophy, Rewards gained are supposed to equate to the level of Risk a player is exposed to during an activity. This is no longer accurate based on what is actually happening in EVE today due the advent of the large Sovereign Nullsec Coalitions of Alliances. This emergent gameplay has changed the conditions, levels and areas of Risk in the game creating imbalance in Risk vs Reward.

DEFINITIONS:
Coalitions are groups of Alliances in Nullsec that have formed cooperatives in the same way that Corporations can create cooperatives in Alliances. Coalitions are not however a built in game mechanic, they are meta-agreements made outside of the game client that define ingame Rules of Conduct between the member players, corps and Alliances. There are only 7 Sov Nullsec Holding Coalitions in EVE.

Risk vs Reward Philosophy states that the higher the Risk one is exposed to in a given activity, the higher the Reward for that activity. How much Risk one is exposed to is currently based on the (arbitrary though logical at the time) System Security Status for each system in EVE. The primary divisions of Security are: High Security Space, Hisec; Low Security Space, Lowsec; and Null Security Space, Nullsec.

System Security Status, a numerical scale from 1.0 to -1.0 defining the relative security of solar systems. This defines CONCORD response to acts of aggression and defense and provides a framework for the Player Rules of Engagement and is the current basis for determining the inherent 'Risk' of a system and hence the scaling of 'Rewards'.

CONTENTION:
The Coalitions have immense resources in manpower and ISK, and this affords them with the ability to build Outposts as needed or desired, rent systems for ISK income, build and maintain Jump Bridges, provide Jump Freighter Services, build and maintain fleets of Titans and Super Capitols, huge fleets of Sub-Capitols and, via Titan and Jump Bridges giving them overwhelming Logistics and Power Projection plus they receive additional protection and allies via Treaties and Non–Aggression Pacts with other Coalitions.

All of the above gives them the ability to make their systems far safer for their members to engage in stock activities than was originally designed or intended.

Emergent Gameplay has once again changed how the game actually works, I propose that CCP needs to re-balance Risk vs Reward to more accurately reflect the actual Risk players are exposed to.

PROPOSED SOLUTION:
Add a “System Threat Level” to all systems in EVE.

The System Security Level defines the consequences to the aggressor player for non-consensual PvP.
The System Threat Level would more accurately define the threat, IE Risk, to the defender or target player for non-consensual PvP.

METHODOLOGY:
The System Threat Level should be based on the number and value of ships and pods destroyed 'over time' on a per system basis. Over time is the key, the System Threat Level would be assessed based on a combination of heavier weighted long term, 30 to 60 day kills and lesser weighted short term, 24 to 48 hr kills.

This is so that Great Battles, Burn Jita and Hulkageddon type events, IE very high kill rate/short term events, would only cause a shorter term and smaller increase in the Threat Level that would drop off more quickly. This would more accurately define the actual Risk players will be exposed to based on the historical and recent threat of non-consensual player aggression.

IMPACT:
Income/cost levels for Industry taxes, costs, etc. and Ratting Bounties, Mission Payouts & Bonuses, etc. should be based on the ‘Threat Level’, not the ‘Security Level’ of a given system. Potential Income should be based on the actual Risk from Player Interaction regardless of System Security Status.

Hence as things stand now Jita would possibly become one of the highest risk systems at Sec Stat 0.8 / Threat Lev -1.0 and areas of Null would be Sec Stat 0.0 / Threat Lev 1.0. Thus Income Potential would be reflected in the Risk a player assumes plying trades and doing activities in areas where the players themselves create greater or lesser real Risk.

Thus we would have one more way in which we actually affect the space we play in, or own. Not just by creating risk, but also by mitigating it the way the Nullsec Coalitions do today in Sov Nullsec.

Imagine Threat Maps in Dotlan… now, as Jester says... Discuss.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/

Azurius Dante
Banana Corp
#2 - 2014-04-25 11:26:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Azurius Dante
Risk vs Reward, High vs Null is balanced based upon potential risk based upon the system design and mechanics.

Just because a group of players are organized to protect themselves in the highest risk areas, doesn't mean you should nerf them.

It's a sandbox after all.

Also nothing is stopping you from jumping through a wormhole into null and popping the people who you believe have little risk.

From your idea, low sec should be the highest rewarding place in game.
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#3 - 2014-04-25 12:13:08 UTC
Azurius Dante wrote:
Risk vs Reward, High vs Null is balanced based upon potential risk based upon the system design and mechanics.

Just because a group of players are organized to protect themselves in the highest risk areas, doesn't mean you should nerf them.

It's a sandbox after all.

Also nothing is stopping you from jumping through a wormhole into null and popping the people who you believe have little risk.

From your idea, low sec should be the highest rewarding place in game.



Not nerfing anybody bro, RvR is broken because Risk is currently equated to Sec Stat and Sec Stat has nothing whatsoever to do with the threat, the Risk, that non-consensual PvP poses... Sec Stat is all about CONCORD, IE the Risk to the non-consensual PvPer... Not nerfing anything here, and if you think on it a bit, you'll see... this could be very interesting, for the bear and griefer alike...

And I full well expect that one thing, "non-consensual", to raise the hackles of the nullbears and grieferbears... I figger if I'm pissin them off, I'm doing something right. =]

And yup, sandbox it is, but that dunt mean we all gotta just accept it when the sand has had rocks thrown in it by some of the other kids...

An yup, I DO from time to time do just that, and got an offer to do so last might even, was just really into the post at the time so meh... I don't mean null has no risk, but it sure ain't working as intended.

And nope again...my idea would have the highest rewards in whatever spaces were the most dangerous... CCP wuold,of course, have to factor FacWar in Plexes as a lower risk as that is consensual PvP on the basis that if ya dunt want PvP, dunt join the Navy fool... and of course, intercorp PvP would be factored out as well, it's intercorp... and yes, that means CCP would have to look at Awoxing to see if it is statistically significant over all... but I personally doubt it.

This is the seed of an idea, not a polished, ready to roll out patch... sheesh.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/

Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-04-25 12:37:57 UTC
so, I should go rat in jita?
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#5 - 2014-04-25 13:28:00 UTC
the down side is that this system would be abused to hell and back and only make the null sec alliances richer
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-04-25 14:04:06 UTC
I get tired of people throwing around the whole Risk v Reward BS when they don't understand it.

As a poster above said, It is potential risk. It is not absolute risk.

Also, it needs to also have effort put into the equation.

Yes High sec can be risky. By the same token it takes very little effort to mitigate much of that risk.

Yes areas of 0.0 can be made safer than even HS or LS. But it can take a good bit of effort to make it safe.


So yes risk v reward is a thing. But entities that put in the effort to mitigate that risk also reap a reward.


With that, the system functions as intended.
Icewolf7
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-04-25 14:05:48 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
the down side is that this system would be abused to hell and back and only make the null sec alliances richer


MY thoughts exactly, what would stop a group from wholesale killing sheep to up the reward of a system?

Maybe base it on Isk value lost?
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#8 - 2014-04-25 20:33:03 UTC
You have a great many concepts confused, most notably risk vs. reward itself.

The effect you are complaining about, null areas becoming "safer" than Highsec areas are a reward for high risk behavior paying off.

In point of fact, other than cloaking, there is no safety in open space. From high sec to the depths of the deepest wormhole you may be shot and killed by anyone at any time. Nothing prevents this at all other than their own fear of loss. All you can do is alter the conditions under which they make the decision to fire.

Some have taken the opportunity to shoot anyone in space they have claimed not allied with them. This alters the decisions of those not allied with them to stay out of that space, creating safety for the allies only so long as fear of loss holds enemies at bay or they decide not to shoot their "allies" themselves.

You think goons dont risk anything in undocking in their space? They enjoy being incredibly bad human beings in general, use the possibility to join as bait to scam people, manipulate the market to screw themselves and everyone else, and god knows what else, their leader is one of the most gleefully evil individuals I have ever heard of with behavior that would have me spit at him on the street if I ever met him. Their safety lies in diplomacy as much as anything else. They manage to hold their stuff together despite themselves, and sooner or later they will eat themselves just as they catalyzed BOB into doing years ago.

Risk vs. Reward has little to do with how often your ship explodes, and everything to do with the efforts you and your allies expend trying to prevent the explosion.


Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#9 - 2014-04-25 22:38:07 UTC
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:
Azurius Dante wrote:
Risk vs Reward, High vs Null is balanced based upon potential risk based upon the system design and mechanics.

Just because a group of players are organized to protect themselves in the highest risk areas, doesn't mean you should nerf them.

It's a sandbox after all.

Also nothing is stopping you from jumping through a wormhole into null and popping the people who you believe have little risk.

From your idea, low sec should be the highest rewarding place in game.



Not nerfing anybody bro, RvR is broken because Risk is currently equated to Sec Stat and Sec Stat has nothing whatsoever to do with the threat, the Risk, that non-consensual PvP poses... Sec Stat is all about CONCORD, IE the Risk to the non-consensual PvPer... Not nerfing anything here, and if you think on it a bit, you'll see... this could be very interesting, for the bear and griefer alike...

And I full well expect that one thing, "non-consensual", to raise the hackles of the nullbears and grieferbears... I figger if I'm pissin them off, I'm doing something right. =]

And yup, sandbox it is, but that dunt mean we all gotta just accept it when the sand has had rocks thrown in it by some of the other kids...

An yup, I DO from time to time do just that, and got an offer to do so last might even, was just really into the post at the time so meh... I don't mean null has no risk, but it sure ain't working as intended.

And nope again...my idea would have the highest rewards in whatever spaces were the most dangerous... CCP wuold,of course, have to factor FacWar in Plexes as a lower risk as that is consensual PvP on the basis that if ya dunt want PvP, dunt join the Navy fool... and of course, intercorp PvP would be factored out as well, it's intercorp... and yes, that means CCP would have to look at Awoxing to see if it is statistically significant over all... but I personally doubt it.

This is the seed of an idea, not a polished, ready to roll out patch... sheesh.


After reading this post I can only assume you hired someone else to write the OP.
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#10 - 2014-04-26 10:12:59 UTC
Icewolf7 wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
the down side is that this system would be abused to hell and back and only make the null sec alliances richer


MY thoughts exactly, what would stop a group from wholesale killing sheep to up the reward of a system?

Maybe base it on Isk value lost?



even based on value of stuff blown up (which i think was mentioned in the original post) all that would happen is they'd blow up a stack of dreads (biggest thing that eve keeps a track of) and then farm the system to hell and back since there is a minimum number of sites that''ll spawn there use insurance to offset the cost of the dreads and make silly isk anything where the potential pay out is worth more than the cost of doing it will be used to make a big fat profit like when ccp first started giving lp in fw for ships that were destroyed it was broken and abused to buggery this would be exactly the same thing only with no limit to how much could be made since all the payout would be in isk
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#11 - 2014-04-27 01:48:45 UTC
If we talking risk reward I think ice fields should only spawn in low sec as that may even out the risk centers.

Is that my two cents or yours?