EVE General Discussion

I don't hate industrialists. I happen to be one, on a couple alts. Building stuff is fun!

Carebears don't seem to realise, EVE is a PVP game with PVE elements. The vast majority of MMOGs are PVE games with PVP elements. Our world here is built on competition. Carebears are under the mistaken impression that PVP involving ship explosions is somehow different than the form of PVP they're engaging in.

Ultimately, it all boils down to the same thing...deny other people resources while exploiting the resources you can generate. Some of us deny resources via the market. Some do it by mining more efficiently. Some do it by destroying the competition's ships. Still others use the metagame. It all ends up in the same place.

There really is no difference between "I exploded your mining ship, costing you 200mil ISK", "I outplayed you on the market, costing you 200mil ISK", "I outmined you, costing you 200mil ISK", and "I caused you to rage quit, costing you 200mil ISK".

Carebears just demand CCP intervention, because they cannot come up with a counter to some people's resource denial strategy. Me, I suck at the market. I would be roundly mocked by the community if I demanded that CCP put in set prices for items, just because I couldn't figure out how I was getting pwned in the market. Sure, it'd be totally fair and even for those of us who cannot market well, but it would destroy part of what makes EVE a fun game. Same diff, when a carebear demands X change in order to avoid PVP interactions.

Just to pre-cover the "It's a sandbox!" mantra, sandbox does not mean "succeed at anything I want". Sandbox means "I can try anything I want. Others can try to stop me."

Also, being into PVE/Industrial/Mining doesn't make someone a carebear. Carebears demand CCP implement counters for strategies that the carebear cannot counter themselves. A PVE/Industrial/Miner figures out how to counter strategies all by themselves.

Thank you!

It's because many people see EVE as a chance to show off their...err...'little rifters', if you will, and don't understand a purely-intellectual approach to the game.

Your post was edited in the interests of accuracy. You're welcome.

It's not even carebears. I've killed so many NPCs, if NPCs go to heaven it's a good thing I'm hellbound lol.

No one has ever complained to me about my carebearing or being in a carebear industrial corp like I am.

The 'hatred' is reserved for the whiny entitled brats who think they should be left alone in a sandbox pvp-centric MMO (like they are in whatever MMO they used to play) and who scream bloody murder when someone interacts with them. They are hated because instead of blaming themselves for making a poor choice in which MMO to play, they blame the people who are simply playing an open world multiplayer game correctly.

In real life I've worked with people like this. People who are ill-suited to the job (basically, they made a poor choice in which profession to pursue) but who blame all their failures on "the brass". Just like in-game, these guys never leave, they show up to work each day and don't complain about the pay check but ***** about everything else all the time. It's annoying as hell lol.

The 'hate' spawns from industrialists that don't fleet up to help protect the space their living in while charging the people who do fleet up outrageous prices on ships and modules because 'my spreadsheet told me to do it'.

It's that bias I mentioned earlier. If they were truly unbiased, every time someone made a thread or a post where they've claimed they want the game mechanics to be changed so there is less security in high sec, or to have concord mechanics changed with the result of it being easier to kill people in high sec, they should show up in force and tell that cry baby to GTFO.

They should be treated the exact same way as they would treat someone who's "crying" that CCP needs to make high-sec more safe. Except since it's an opinion they agree with, they show their bias by not condemning the post, and instead, only focus their HATE onto posters who express a view point other than their own. Because THEY are in fact the entitled ones, who feel that any opinion different than their own should not be allowed to exist. Conform or Die.

Instead of condemn posts and threads of those asking for less safety in high sec, they encourage and support them. They then see a "carebear" thread, and they spew personal insults and showcase how their real life persons are people with questionable morale character.

very bias. much hypocrite.

Holy hell, did this thread just get ISDed back to the stone-age!


Oof. Not off the top of my head, no. If you search around for RPG design, it should come up a bit. Especially in games with a magic component, you'll come across that problem: spells that just do what they do because that's the point of spells — they create stuff out of nowhere. “It's magic”. This as opposed to many other abilities people might have. Want to build a trap? Got to check with the GM if the tools and materials are available. Want to swing on a chandelier and punch people Errol Flynn-style? Got to check with the GM if one is available and will let you pass near the badguy.

I'm not sure the “declarative” and “permissive” terms are in conventional use, but I ran across them in exactly that kind of discussion and they're very good for describing the fundamental problem.

The two opposing schools of thought in EVE have very similar foundations, except that there is no GM that you would have to ask for permission from, but other players. Meanwhile, EVE (and indeed any multiplayer sandbox) is inherently very declarative in its nature: you declare what you want to do (within the limits of what legitimate mechanics makes possible) and go for gold, and other players can't so much disallow you from doing it as declare the opposite intent and go for it themselves.

Regulating like a Ninja Boss!


Edit: Oh no.....My troll/off-topic posts......

And use them to fertilize your new blood orange tree.