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Dear CCP: If you must nerf highsec industry, give us something back!

Author
hippity hopity
Leftfield Synergy
#1 - 2014-04-23 16:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: hippity hopity
Industry was one of the main ways we could really collaborate as a corp in highsec. We shared Poses, BPOS etc. The summer mechanics look like they are taking lots of the reasons to do this away, risking bpos in space etc. It let us work together for greater goals that we couldn't necessarily achieve alone as casual players.

Give us something back!

Let us have other ways of collaborating as casual indy/missions corps. My suggestion is this; tradable LP and a corp LP wallet!

If we could trade, or even tax LP we can pool our mission running efforts to buy things that would take many many hours otherwise, the expensive BPCs and such. Right now, we will pool our salvage and mining ops and build a monthly freighter or something. If we could use LP as a group too, that would make up for loosing out on some of the things we do currently. I'm sure plenty of faction warfare corps would like the ability to handle LP at the corp level and via trading too!
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2014-04-23 17:42:08 UTC
'Give us something back!'

like the potential to get better refine yields than u get now?
or the lack of queues for researching BP's
or the ability to put a POS anywhere without a standings grind
or the ability to compress ore in high sec?

the whining aside, corp tax on LP wouldnt be bad, even though ive been opposed to it in the past :S

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-04-23 17:52:35 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
'Give us something back!'

like the potential to get better refine yields than u get now?
or the lack of queues for researching BP's
or the ability to put a POS anywhere without a standings grind
or the ability to compress ore in high sec?

the whining aside, corp tax on LP wouldnt be bad, even though ive been opposed to it in the past :S

corp tax on LP makes since form a lore point, if people consistently help you from a particular corporation, that corporation could step in and be "hey, you see all these guys helpin' ya? theyre mine" and voila, LP tax, so the corp gets some of the "credit" for the missions.

What I am and always WILL be opposed to are the people going off about trading/selling/converting LP between corporations/factions, which makes no since.



On topic with the OP, no, your getting things back with the expansion, its not an unjustified nerf to highsec industry, its a rebalance, which means pros and cons, one of which means to take joy in the safety (from capitals and most mega-blobs) of highsec, you have to actually have your assets at risk.

yes this sounds counter-intuitive, but as it is, highsec is 100% safe for most industry, as it rarely sees a threat capable fo actually harming it, now with this expansion, if you wish to stay sheltered by highsec, you have to trade off your ability to operate.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4 - 2014-04-23 17:56:03 UTC
i also believe that trading or selling LP defeats its purpose.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

hippity hopity
Leftfield Synergy
#5 - 2014-04-23 18:06:01 UTC
I'm not saying I'm upset about the changes, I'm a mission/mining/indy corp ceo and basically just want more ways that my corp can work together towards common goals. From a lore point of view why can't it be like my corp is helping the Caldari Navy, rather than just each of us individually?

I just figured if we could have some manner of a collective LP pool, perhaps it isn't such a leap to be able to trade it too? I guess it depends what exactly a loyalty point is in the Lore? Is it intangible but quantifiable favor or is it a non-fiscal currency?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2014-04-23 18:44:52 UTC
as a reward the corp gives u access to their special armory at reduced prices. Sometimes they'll take an item u own, and make it better for u, or they might tell u how to build one of their special ships.

further access and lowered prices are available if u provide the dog tags and body parts (lol) of their enemies or notorious pirates.

LP's are an attempt to quantify how much they love u in ur butts. i dnt think its meant as a currency.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-04-23 22:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Daichi Yamato wrote:
'Give us something back!'

like the potential to get better refine yields than u get now?
or the lack of queues for researching BP's
or the ability to put a POS anywhere without a standings grind
or the ability to compress ore in high sec?



  • potentially better refines... might potentially be good.


  • lack of queues... possibly good though in truth the queues don't bother me now.


  • ability to put a POS anywhere without standing grind... not so good an idea. Actually, I would prefer that at least the anchoring player have standing even if the corp does not - this requires at least some effort in the area. It doesn't change much in that most moons in high sec are taken already.. unless by "anywhere" you really mean anywhere not just at moons.


  • compression in high sec is next to worthless.. As I have mentioned elsewhere, compression is good if you have to haul ore a long distance to refine it .. or if you have to haul large quantities of unprocessed ore from a belt... neither of these conditions are going to exist for most high sec miners...so the compression will not really be much of a benefit.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

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Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-04-23 22:45:52 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:

compression in high sec is next to worthless.. As I have mentioned elsewhere, compression is good if you have to haul ore a long distance to refine it .. or if you have to haul large quantities of unprocessed ore from a belt... neither of these conditions are going to exist for most high sec miners...so the compression will not really be much of a benefit.

It will be especially useful for those who want to sell pre-compressed ore to nullsec entities. Mostly the low-end ores to be specific.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-04-23 22:57:47 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
i also believe that trading or selling LP defeats its purpose.



+1...its LOYALTY points. Your loyalty....


Well that and it lead to some abuse for corp.


Take 2-3 chars run independent missions on 3 accounts, pool the lp under corp (or trade it), get the nicer lp gear faster. In empire no less. CCP via fw buffing and moving level 5's to actually be run in low sec for a reason.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2014-04-24 00:06:30 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:


  • ability to put a POS anywhere without standing grind... not so good an idea. Actually, I would prefer that at least the anchoring player have standing even if the corp does not - this requires at least some effort in the area. It doesn't change much in that most moons in high sec are taken already.. unless by "anywhere" you really mean anywhere not just at moons.
]


Hmm.. everywhere? Twisted

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Ren Coursa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-04-24 08:34:06 UTC
Isn't one of the last dev blogs that is going to come out and explain this new industry system called "teams" or something like that?
You might already know what that means and that it maybe had nothing to do with cooperating, sounds like it does so maybe wait and read that one?
Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-04-24 09:54:56 UTC
Wish they would release them finally.. those dev blogs, so we could get an idea.

As it stands right now, they ruined the "owning and using BPOs together through having them locked up" feature. As you cannot lock BPOs on a POS. Would also be horrible to have them locked there while it gets attacked. So there need to be some replacement system asap.

BPO locking was a major, but also very annoying feature, when it came to doing research, invention and production together. So far it was no problem to lock them at any station, even if they had no slots at all, as you could use the POS outside.

We either need a way to secure BPOs at a POS, more stations with production/research capability, or increased numbers of bureaus on stations that offer those services.


All the people that used "suboptimal" stations so far cause they had their POS, are now forced to look for stations that have production/research/copy/invention slots. And i bet there are not enough of those out there for all of them.

They removed the bottleneck of available slots, but created a new bottleneck of a lack of available bureaus for corporations, that suddenly need them, as their "we can use the POS even on suboptimal stations" thing is busted. They moved out of the way, went through lots of effort and maintenance costs, to go out of the way of those stations - and now they get forced to return to them.


I really see a big upcomming problem in available bureaus on such stations after the summer patch - we need more bureau slots at those stations, or more stations that offer those kind of services.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#13 - 2014-04-24 10:51:35 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
'Give us something back!'

like the potential to get better refine yields than u get now?
or the lack of queues for researching BP's
or the ability to put a POS anywhere without a standings grind
or the ability to compress ore in high sec?



  • potentially better refines... might potentially be good.


  • lack of queues... possibly good though in truth the queues don't bother me now.


  • ability to put a POS anywhere without standing grind... not so good an idea. Actually, I would prefer that at least the anchoring player have standing even if the corp does not - this requires at least some effort in the area. It doesn't change much in that most moons in high sec are taken already.. unless by "anywhere" you really mean anywhere not just at moons.


  • compression in high sec is next to worthless.. As I have mentioned elsewhere, compression is good if you have to haul ore a long distance to refine it .. or if you have to haul large quantities of unprocessed ore from a belt... neither of these conditions are going to exist for most high sec miners...so the compression will not really be much of a benefit.


haters gonna hate

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#14 - 2014-04-24 15:22:31 UTC
Highsec should be less profitable in comparison to other more "dangerous" places, period.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-04-24 15:59:42 UTC
currently i dont mind most of the changes.

but the bpo change sucks. As currently a corp can lock down bpos and everybody can still use/copy them. After the changes u practically force every player who makes production to own said bpo's and not the corp.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-04-24 16:05:29 UTC
I don't actually think it is that clear cut as that since trading activities need a large stable market with high demand which by all accounts doesn't exist in null. That is my reason for arguing that each security sector should have something best suited to it, and then for best profit a player would interact with all areas.

I agree with the risk/reward concept but not with the idea that any one are should be better at all things.

Also risk/reward applies to each action, the risk of running a mission in null should have a high isk reward for the bounty. At the other extreme the single run of building a ship or making a trade in hisec has a low reward in terms of return on investment for the isk. You only make loads of isk if you invest loads of isk. Just as a player should make lots of isk very rapidly buy running missions etc in null, the clever investor should still be able to make lots of is in hisec.

in my view so far risk/reward should define the rate at which you can gather wealth in relation to the wealth you invest to do so. An interceptor running exploration in null is very high risk to reward in that sense and good luck to them, but by the same measure a player making a multi-billion trade that will return a low percentage is putting tremendous wealth at risk on the bet that someone else won't beat them to the deal.

The % return on investment in hisec definately should be lower than the more risky areas, but that won't stop someone making 5 bil ISK by investing 100 bil ISK into a 5% return deal in hisec trades
hippity hopity
Leftfield Synergy
#17 - 2014-04-24 17:22:53 UTC
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
currently i dont mind most of the changes.

but the bpo change sucks. As currently a corp can lock down bpos and everybody can still use/copy them. After the changes u practically force every player who makes production to own said bpo's and not the corp.


Yeah, exactly. Totally agree. I like the changes too I just want to have some more ways for my corp to work together. Mining ops are fun but sharing LP properly would make missioning together even better too!