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Should everything be better in Null-sec?

Author
Salvos Rhoska
#81 - 2014-04-23 14:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Andski wrote:
---


I'm not Dinsdale. Your rant does not apply to me.

After the next expansion, which gives NS the profit advantage in all aspects of the game, focus will increase on Sov and security in NS.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2014-04-23 14:20:43 UTC
Why is this even a question, of course it should...

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Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2014-04-23 14:46:09 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Anybody ever bother to look at a map?

Null has way more security than high sec according to the big red kill overlays.

Just sayin'

Mr Epeen Cool


Check the pilots in space metric.
A system with zero pilots in is unlikely to have many blow up.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-04-23 14:52:26 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Right now everything seems to go that null-sec could stand alone easily and surpass any other security region in every way and that would just lead to a really boring game.

Quoting this, that's about the best thing I've read here.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-04-23 17:24:16 UTC
First of all Oracle at Delphi Ripard is never right. Secondly, nullsec should have the highest profit potential because it has the highest risk according to the game rules.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Lvzbel Ixtab
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-04-23 18:00:10 UTC
What alot of people don't get is that Null Sec can actually be safer than HS and there not much small scale gangs can do about it.

because of this my answer is NO null sec shouldn't be better than anything.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#87 - 2014-04-23 18:06:58 UTC
Isn't everything already better in Null-Sec?

What's not?
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2014-04-23 18:08:42 UTC
Lvzbel Ixtab wrote:
What alot of people don't get is that Null Sec can actually be safer than HS and there not much small scale gangs can do about it.

do go on

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.

Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-04-23 19:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoshi Sorano
Organic Lager wrote:
Hoshi Sorano wrote:
In reality, the most efficient and economical industry takes place in stable countries, not in warzones or lawless territories. If we translate this to EVE, industry should be "better" in high sec where it is protected by the established empires; it just makes sense that way. So in the strictest sense, no, Ripard's comment is wrong.
.


We out source most of our production to mexico and china to avoid expensive inefficient industry practices such as high taxes and pesky workers rights.

If we translate this to eve it should be more efficient and cost effective to manufacture goods in null then high sec.


I didn't say "developed countries," I said stable countries; you seem to be assuming a meaning and imagining words that I didn't write. When was the last time someone tried invading Mexico? China is far from lawless. Equating these countries to null is the wrong analogy; nullsec is more akin to certain countries and regions in the world which are plagued with constant war and strife, while political leadership frequently changes hands and the laws shift to suit the whim of whoever is in charge and peace lasts only as long as it can be enforced by strength of arms. How many manufacturing jobs are exported to these lands? How many businesses choose these countries as a good location to set up shop? Some will take the risk specifically because of the chance for a high profit, but when the local warlord can waltz in at any time and claim your assets as his own, it makes business opportunities less attractive for most companies.

So again, I stand by my point: stable governments provide the best environment for business and industry. Why should EVE be different? Less stable regions should offer the opportunity for a large profit, but only for those with the strength, skill, or luck to overcome the risks and hazards of such areas.

baltec1 wrote:


Britain was bombed to **** yet led the way in technology on the allies side. Germany was leveled yet led everyone in new tech right till the end.


That sort of wartime development occurs out of necessity, not because it is cost effective or a good business environment. Yes, the level of technology often jumps ahead during wars, but it doesn't mean they're making loads of money off of it. What exactly was the profit margin on those panzers?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#90 - 2014-04-23 19:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Lvzbel Ixtab wrote:
What alot of people don't get is that Null Sec can actually be safer than HS and there not much small scale gangs can do about it.

because of this my answer is NO null sec shouldn't be better than anything.


What a lot of people don't get is that any 'safety' achieved in nullsec has been brought about by 10's of thousands of hours of time invested and trillions of ISK put down to carve out that system.

Because of this my answer is YES null sec should be better at everything.

It's a moot point anyway because CCP basically understand this is how it is.

e: Also "safer" than highsec is impossible. It is however, for a player in sov space who is alert to be less likely to be attacked than a player in highsec who just ignores the very concept of Dscan or local all together.
You can't balance for the lowest common denominator, my experience has shown they're just too low.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-04-23 19:55:48 UTC
Lvzbel Ixtab wrote:
What alot of people don't get is that Null Sec can actually be safer than HS and there not much small scale gangs can do about it.

because of this my answer is NO null sec shouldn't be better than anything.


I get that, but it is the players who have made it safe. If you strip away all the players, clear the board so to speak, and look at the game rules, clearly nullsec has the highest degree of risk. That players have taken on that risk to conquer that space and continue the upkeep on it should not negatively affect the rewards available.

What a lot of people don't get is that High Sec is actually almost completely safe, hisec residents did nothing to earn that and continue to do nothing to keep it other than demanding it be made safer.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2014-04-23 20:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:

If you strip away all the players, clear the board so to speak, and look at the game rules, clearly nullsec has the highest degree of risk.

Wormholes. Nullsec players are often fond of saying WH residents don't have to deal with hotdrops/blops, but if you look at what blops and hotdrops actually do (rapid and reasonably clandestine movement of forces to a target), each cloaky that passes through a new wormhole has the exact same potential, except they don't even light up intel channels with a cyno alt.

But this is a poor metric either way. We must look at the day to day reality as it actually exists. In that analysis, for certain occupations (e.g. mining), lowsec is far more dangerous than null (for reference: compare the number of renting miners to the number of lowsec miners).
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2014-04-23 20:10:35 UTC
Lido Seahawk wrote:
On the Jester's Trek blog everyone's favorite CSM member said:

"So, YES, null-sec should have better income for EVERYTHING than high-sec. It should be better for EVERYTHING than high-sec."

I said I thought that remark to be a bit snooty, but now I'm wondering. I always thought that every part of eve should have its pros and cons, and let the players decide on the trade-offs to make. Shouldn't there be aspects of the game where null should need high-sec input in various ways? Why can't high-sec have some little treasure of its own that makes it most groovy in its own special way?

But hey, I could be wrong. So, I ask, is Jester right? Should EVERYTHING be better in null-sec than high-sec?


I say no. null sec is only one type of play in eve. There are some things that should be better. but not everything. There are things that either don't exist in null sec or that are lessened in null sec in favor of other areas of play.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#94 - 2014-04-23 20:14:34 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
What a lot of people don't get is that any 'safety' achieved in nullsec has been brought about by 10's of thousands of hours of time invested and trillions of ISK put down to carve out that system.


Not empty quoting.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Solecist Project
#95 - 2014-04-23 20:16:41 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
What a lot of people don't get is that any 'safety' achieved in nullsec has been brought about by 10's of thousands of hours of time invested and trillions of ISK put down to carve out that system.


Not empty quoting.

Wannabe highsec systems. *smug*

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#96 - 2014-04-23 23:05:18 UTC
It's the ultimate in but licking.

Yea, the other but.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#97 - 2014-04-24 01:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Lvzbel Ixtab wrote:
What alot of people don't get is that Null Sec can actually be safer than HS and there not much small scale gangs can do about it.

because of this my answer is NO null sec shouldn't be better than anything.


What a lot of people don't get is that any 'safety' achieved in nullsec has been brought about by 10's of thousands of hours of time invested and trillions of ISK put down to carve out that system.

Because of this my answer is YES null sec should be better at everything.

It's a moot point anyway because CCP basically understand this is how it is.

e: Also "safer" than highsec is impossible. It is however, for a player in sov space who is alert to be less likely to be attacked than a player in highsec who just ignores the very concept of Dscan or local all together.
You can't balance for the lowest common denominator, my experience has shown they're just too low.


normally I'd just like the post, but this really is it in a nutshell.

I'd also add, that I can and have missioned and ran ded 4s,, "safely", whilst at war with marmite and 10 other wardec specialists at the same time. ie the survival skills that are applied to making nullsec safe, actually also make highsec safe.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-04-24 01:58:08 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Andski wrote:
---


I'm not Dinsdale. Your rant does not apply to me.

After the next expansion, which gives NS the profit advantage in all aspects of the game, focus will increase on Sov and security in NS.


It wasn't a rant, I was simply letting you know that you are utterly uninformed on the realities of 0.0 gameplay.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#99 - 2014-04-24 02:07:41 UTC
Andski wrote:
Changing local in 0.0 without a replacement intelligence tool renders those who play there deaf and blind, while the game literally broadcasts to the entire galaxy "PEOPLE ACTIVELY RAT/MINE IN THIS SYSTEM. CAMP IT!" - a source of free, zero effort intelligence that those who desire the removal of local conveniently ignore (because adjusting /that/ wouldn't be conducive to their goal of making ratter hunting a game of shooting fish in a barrel)

That's just not true. Zero effort intelligence is a bad thing in ALL of it's forms. If local is removed, then npckill data should also be removed. Personally, I would like both of these things to happen.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2014-04-24 02:17:01 UTC
The answer to this is yes, Highsec should be worse than nullsec in every way shape and form.

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