Warfare & Tactics

I noticed that the EHP given in fitting tools like EFT are a bit high. So, I started paying attention to how much damage I actually take before I explode. The actual damage taken on most of my lossmails seems a bit low. For example:

I have a t1 frig with 403 structure + 2381 armor + 518 shields = 3302 actual hp.
With just a DCUII running, it has 403(1.6) + 2381(1.23) + 518(1.12) = 4081 ehp
4081 ehp assumes worst case scenario, where damage is applied entirely to the lowest resists.
Last lossmail says that ship took 3691 damage.

So, where'd the other 400ish ehp go?

You are comparing eHP and HP, you even make the distinction in your post.

You have (correctly) discovered that they are not the same thing.

Resists don't give you more hit points.

EHP is based on an even split of all incoming damage types. On the killmail it displays actual damage taken.

For example, if you've got 1000HP of shields with no resist mods, you've got 33.75% average resists across all damage types, for about 1509 EHP. That's what would show up in EFT etc.

But if I smack you with nothing but EM damage, where you have 0 resist, you'll only take 1000 HP of shield damage before your shields fail. That's what would display on your killmail (for that portion of your total HP of course).

Thanks for your reply, but I am not worried about the number in EFT. I'm sorry I even mentioned EFT, as it seems to have confused people about my question.

What I have been calling 'ehp' is the number I got by multiplying each layer of defenses on the example ship by that layer's lowest resist. Let's call this 'xhp'.

So my question is: shouldn't xhp be the minimum number that shows up on a lossmail? Of course, the number could be higher, given passive shield recharge and damage hitting higher resists, etc.

This is just intellectual curiosity.

Thanks. That makes sense.

I guess the difference, in the op example, between the raw hp of 3302 and the listed damage of 3691 is passive shield recharge? Looks about right, actually.

The Shield/Armor/Hull hp values are the amount of damage you have to take to blow up. Resists just mitigate it.

So yes, your 100 hp no resist ship take 100 dmg to kill, and technically so does your 160 ehp ship:

100 HP 0 Resist hit by 200 dmg = 100 dmg taken, 100 excess dmg
100 HP 50 Resist hit by 200 dmg = 100 dmg taken, 0 excess dmg

Yes, thanks, I see where I was confused. As people tried to say even in the first few replies, resists don't add hp.
The 'potential' damage coming out of the attacker's guns aren't shown anywhere; only the hp subtracted from the target is shown.
EHP is the minimum amount of 'potential' damage the ship must take before it explodes; damage in the killmail/in combat logs is the amount of hp subtracted from the ship.

So if you know your resists, and the damage types that were being applied, you could figure out how much 'potential' damage had to come out of the attacker's weapons (i.e., their cumulative 'paper' dps)--which is how I got the higher number in the original example--but this, I now understand, is not the damage one takes, and not the damage that gets recorded.

There is a disparity in several programs in how they display your EHP, as the don't all handle the resistances of your hull the same.

Some simply average the resists you have to create a net "armor" or "shield" resist value.
EFT does this: So, if you look at a ship with shield resistances of 0, 20, 40, and 50%. Average them to 27.5%.
Then 1 / (1 - 27.5% ) == 1.379.
So your shield EHP in EFT == Shield HP * 1.379

This would the the damage needed to remove your shields assuming an even distribution of damage types. However, that never happens in game, and most ships have resistance holes, where weapons dealing the specific damage type deal more damage to your ship.

^^ this

Assault frigs are a good example. On some hulls, even after putting some effort in plugging your holes (), it's not uncommon to have figures like 7,000 ehp to em dmg and 18,000 ehp to explosive dmg, making the average ehp value quite meaningless.

But if you wish, EFT allows you to set custom dmg profiles to calculate ehp instead of the default 'even distribution'. I often use it to check how big my holes are ().