Intergalactic Summit

I think how much or how little Andreus knows about the Mandate isn't really relevant to the discussion.

You've pretty clearly demnostrated a near-complete lack of understanding with regards to the tactical situation in Luminaire last year and the options and decisions involved, however - and that is quite relevant, since it's what spawned this thread in the first place.

Had it been possible, I'm sure that the State would have diverted every ship within range to Luminaire last year in that brief window that the Federation temporarily offlined the cynojammers in the system. Unfortunately for them, it wasn't possible. Many ships that were in range may not have been fueled or ready at the time they needed to go, and many more still would likely have been out of range, ready or not.

Those ships that were ready and in range, and only those ships, were able to be deployed - and, in all likelihood, the ones that managed to make it through were but a small fraction of those ships that were ready at the time. Unfortunately, it is not as simple as some central coordinator pressing a button, and every ship available jumps with that press. A human (or computer) has to give the initial order to the fleet, and then that order must be processed and confirmed by yet another human (or computer) at the other end. In addition, while ships of identical models are more or less made up of identical parts, each vessel is still unique compared to its brothers and sisters. While one ship may jump a mere two seconds after the local order to lock on to the cynosural beacon and activate the jump drive, another otherwise identical vessel may take five seconds to do so, for a variety of reasons, both mechanical and organic.

Three seconds may not seem like a lot, but when the jammers are offline for half a minute or less, every second counts.

And in the end, how much would it really have mattered? The Federation Navy managed to arrange the entire battle to their full advantage, forcing an engagement at close ranges that played to nearly every one of their strengths. Had the Caldari been able to bring through all of the ships that were in range at the time, would that have been enough, given those circumstances?

I'm not sure it would have.

Having been on many of these kinds of fleets I can second what Morwen, Katrina, Andreus, and others have said in regards to do with the factors that determine just how super capital engagements go down.

More often than not the entity that escalates first and gains the upper hand quickest is the one who owns the field. Supercapitals are investments and moved around as such.

Sometimes, you have to cut your losses and lose four rather than risk losing twenty.

I'm not sure what card games you play, pilot, but the ones I tend to play don't allow you too much choice on your hand-- just on your wagers and your aggressiveness. Skill there is based on learning your opponents' technique, and pushing them, hard, when they present a momentary opening.

Her point is that card games are a rather poor choice of metaphor in this case.

That game basically took half of my free time during high school. It stopped when I knew girls. Maybe there was some cause-consequence relation in that process.

With regards to the timing and deployment window of the brave defenders of Shiigeru, The detection and deployment was almost certainly an automated process. My specialty is pattern detection algorithm development, so I feel a little more confident in commenting on this topic than I would normally.

Detection of the window event could have been done in two ways - detection of the Federal message-passing involved in opening the deployment window, or detection of the window opening itself. Likely both of these techniques were used. The former would have been accomplished through interception of communication streams somewhere within the CONCORD jamming network - likely at the jamming hardware itself, distributed throughout the system. These likely used a randomized staggered-sawtooth polling pattern such as is seen in SCSS router controllers.

The latter would use cloaked sensing stations throughout Federal space, in the target system and in systems from which ships would be suspected of deployment. These would use a similar polling pattern to test cyno viability through microsingularity formation. Given the nature of the task, I suspect that these would be manned operations with strict no-capture orders. Once detected by either process, the cyno signal would be passed back to waiting deployables through a secured fluid router network, which would automatically trigger the jump. No doubt the Federal attackers started jumping as soon as the cynosural fields dropped below the jamming threshold, and the jammers were immediately reactivated as soon as the clock ticked over the reflex period.

Reasons for assuming a computer-controlled deployment are numerous. The largest of these is the very small window. The Federal attackers had the luxury of choosing the window size, and no doubt chose one as small as possible to prevent a large Caldari response. Given that they did not have the lag from state detection or message passing, they had a much larger opening and could pass jump orders to a larger group. To ensure as large a defensive deployment as possible, the Caldari needed to reduce that lag as much as possible. Adding the human decision system in would have reduced the window to the point where the entire thing could have easily been missed.

Notably, the crews of the Federal ships would be prepared for the assault and could more easily maintain a state of readiness for the engagement. The Caldari had no knowledge of the deployment and had to maintain readiness for a much longer period. No doubt there were several squadrons ready to jump, each staggering high and low alertness. The requirement for a prolonged state of high readiness is exhausting for commanders and would have almost certainly resulted in a missed or deficient window.

Relying on human systems in time-critical situations is an investment in disaster. Better to put your stock into good detection algorithms and worry about preparation instead.

((This statement is officially endorsed by Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetic))

Metaphorical card games, I'm OK at.

Actual card games? I look at what I'm dealt and go "what."

Screw that, I'm not letting you Caldari number cruncher types take my isk.

Did you miss the part where we all suck at cards?

Heres a tip


If the guy has a pocket ace pair, then majority of the river is aces then you have all the rights to pull out a gun and blow that **** away



Well that only follows for poker....