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New dev blog: Player Owned Customs Offices: An update!

First post First post
Author
Pipip Mendicant
Kindred of Honor
#541 - 2011-12-01 22:31:44 UTC
If you want to speed up adoption of POCOs, you should really look into a way of allowing a POCO owner to impact the availability of resources on a planet. If I can only attract a couple of people to my planet, it's hardly worth it to stand up an office, even at the current tax rates. Lower taxes aren't the sexiest reason to move PI operations to another planet. Also, if I somehow attracted a large number of people, it actually devalues the planet, as resources get depleted more quickly.

If I can upgrade the planet, just as someone with Sov can upgrade a system, I have another way of attracting people to it. If someone does a planetary scan and sees that the planet has huge patches of white, they're much more likely to drop an office on it. It also keeps the value of the planet higher for longer as more people flock to it. There are plenty of logical ways to implement this - deploy ground survey teams, launch high res satellites, send demolitions drones, etc.

As a command center owner, I'd also be much more likely to want mercs to attack my neighbors if the planet got too crowded (Dust 514). And as a POCO owner, I'd want to wipe out command centers as well, if some ninja corp was trying to get away with launch containers to avoid my POCO.

Oh, and this would need to apply to lowsec as well as null.
Ardamalis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#542 - 2011-12-01 22:32:26 UTC
Excellent change. CCP.

Stay the course. Its natural that people whose incomes are hit will be a bit mad. Folks everywhere don't tend to take a drop in profits very well but its necessary for the health of the game.
Kaori Ohara
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#543 - 2011-12-01 22:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaori Ohara
This new tax rate will be the death of all the small industrialist corp !!!

Why ?

because once again, you are favorising the big entities of Eve, such as alliances or corps in alliances. They will continue to make isk very easily, since it (the new tax rate), will not interfere in their ISK making process because they can set the tax to 0%. However, all the young industrialist corps or avatars who are trying to start something (a small business) can't do anything about it, other than pay ridicoulously high taxes or die.

because again, in my case, i try to run a medium POS in low sec, the only reaction i can make is not cost efficiency, but i produce a little part of the POS fuel i need and this make, i can save around 10-20M/month on the fuel cost. so it make my POS can run in the black ( a very little but it's something and i play) but these new taxes will raise prices of fuel and therefore the cost of operation will also increase thus combine with the customs taxes, this results in the arrest of my POS because it becomes a money pit, and death of my hope to start a small industry production vessel or other ...

again because in hight sec space you don't have the same harvest rate than in low sec or in 0.0, so big entities still have no problem for their lot of isk making against risk, while small corporations will have no risk, ok, but will cost more despite lower yields.

Now what can I do against that? nothing ? not really, I can go suck some dicks to expect to have a system that I'll have to rent to a large entity, but of course as I am a small corporation, I could not pay .. . and if I can not do anything except die in my corner. which also means the end of my subscription to eve, I think ... execpt...
Kaori Ohara
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#544 - 2011-12-01 22:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaori Ohara
mis click
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#545 - 2011-12-01 22:46:06 UTC
This is a good change. Gives people more to fight over.

I guess they would get a similar tear free result had they left the tax rate alone and just ninja patched high sec planets to slowly become less productive over a month or two. They would just think everyone had depleted the high sec planets.
XT 0023
Frud Industries
#546 - 2011-12-01 22:52:20 UTC
I have 4 accounts, all fully funded by PI. My math proves that this is no longer possible.. goodbye 3/4 accounts, I will not be renewing them once their time runs out. Thanks CCP, oh and btw.. **** you.
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#547 - 2011-12-01 22:55:22 UTC
XT 0023 wrote:
I have 4 accounts, all fully funded by PI. My math proves that this is no longer possible.. goodbye 3/4 accounts, I will not be renewing them once their time runs out. Thanks CCP, oh and btw.. **** you.


This is the revolt and supply drop I was talking about. We are going to end up with a big gap in P1s. Without further incentivising low-sec, we're going to have some serious supply issues. High sec doesn't have near the resources to sustain the current demand.
Jim Hooknose
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#548 - 2011-12-01 23:01:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Hooknose
CCP Guard wrote:
The higher PI taxes are deliberate.


My lacking of paying you is also deliberate. Enjoy the fallout of this incredibly ill conceived feature that only benefits large alliances. Contrary to what you believe there are players who have no desire to go into your null sec.
Gooba Budd
Kunn Industries
#549 - 2011-12-01 23:18:25 UTC
I support this change. It adds much more complexity and nuance to an otherwise risk-free, boring activity. PI was easy money for far too long and the ability to fight over access to planets fits in with the theme of the game. The POCO system has a low barrier of entry and is a way to encourage highsec players to venture into lowsec and experience the life of nullsec dwellers who have to deal with structure mechanics everyday. Don't let all of the whiners and complainers get their way. Big smile
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#550 - 2011-12-02 00:00:12 UTC
To suggest that this will negatively impact the economy of eve would be like suggesting that flying a noob ship into a pirate choke point solo is a bad idea or that CCP has no real clue about how the game works outside nullsec.
Illectroculus Defined
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#551 - 2011-12-02 00:19:32 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
To suggest that this will negatively impact the economy of eve would be like suggesting that flying a noob ship into a pirate choke point solo is a bad idea or that CCP has no real clue about how the game works outside nullsec.


I believe you've just proven that you have no understanding of economics, pirates or nullsec.

Please, leave the PI market in disgust, it will only serve to prove the effectiveness of my PI investments.

(BTW, noobships flying through pirate haven - sounds like a mission for Skye)
Doukyou
Deafening Silence Syndiate
#552 - 2011-12-02 00:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Doukyou
Got to ask do I get a kiss before I get F-u-c-k-e-d in the A-z-z?

Lube would be Nice.

What Idiot thought up the idea of Doubling the Taxes on HS customs offices?

And what idiot made it more than double?

Did you fire them? IF not WILL YOU FIRE THEM?

Out of a ballista would be appropriate. I can set up f-e-c-e-s covered barbed spikes in the landing zone so we can get a pleasant squishing sound when they land.

I do like the idea of player owned custom offices, but don't Sodomizing everyone in high sec by making it impossible to afford fueling our POS's. And we can't rely on Null sec to supply our fuel, because they will constantly be loosing their POCO's.

Thank you for listening,


The Director of Evil,

Doukyou
Misstress Zain
Lost Soul Society
#553 - 2011-12-02 00:31:53 UTC
Personally I see no big deal here. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together should be able to make isk out the yin yang with PI if your willing to put a little patiennce into it. As for my experience with the chages, in less that 24 hours me and my corp mate had all six interbus sites destroyed, new corp owned ones put up to cut taxes out all together in our WH.

As for the prices, well I am loving how they have jumped over 4k per unit on the stuff I produce over night. So please yes quit PI throw in the towell, and sit on the fourms and whine while I grow rich in EvE. Heaven forbid you do anything constructive like make your own centers in low sec, talk with similar corps about building and protecting some to use in low sec, NPC null, WH etc. I always forget this is EvE online instead of actually geting off your rear to work around a problem or go around it... lets just flood the forum with tears as usual. Ugh

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#554 - 2011-12-02 00:39:27 UTC
Excellent.

Necessary.

Thank you.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#555 - 2011-12-02 00:42:23 UTC
Kaori Ohara wrote:

because again, in my case, i try to run a medium POS in low sec, the only reaction i can make is not cost efficiency, but i produce a little part of the POS fuel i need and this make, i can save around 10-20M/month on the fuel cost. so it make my POS can run in the black ( a very little but it's something and i play) but these new taxes will raise prices of fuel and therefore the cost of operation will also increase thus combine with the customs taxes, this results in the arrest of my POS because it becomes a money pit, and death of my hope to start a small industry production vessel or other ...

if your pos only runs in the black because you mine your own fuel its losing money you idiot

if you're going to make economic forecasts you should avoid making it clear you're that stupendously dumb

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Jim Hooknose
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#556 - 2011-12-02 00:42:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Hooknose
Misstress Zain wrote:
So please yes quit PI throw in the towel, and sit on the forums and whine while I grow rich in EvE. Heaven forbid you do anything constructive like make your own centers in low sec, talk with similar corps about building and protecting some to use in low sec, NPC null, WH etc. I always forget this is EvE online instead of actually getting off your rear to work around a problem or go around it... lets just flood the forum with tears as usual. Ugh


The issue with this is I don't want to go to non-empire space unless I want do it. I am not a fan of being forced into a playstyle that I don't want to play. It's akin to Blizzard suddenly making all rogues (or thieves, whatever they are called) warriors without their consent.

The change is a blatant move by CCP to do three things simultaneously:
1.) Punish empire dwellers
2.) Punish WH dwellers
3.) Make life easier on null sec alliances
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#557 - 2011-12-02 00:51:04 UTC
Jim Hooknose wrote:
Misstress Zain wrote:
So please yes quit PI throw in the towel, and sit on the forums and whine while I grow rich in EvE. Heaven forbid you do anything constructive like make your own centers in low sec, talk with similar corps about building and protecting some to use in low sec, NPC null, WH etc. I always forget this is EvE online instead of actually getting off your rear to work around a problem or go around it... lets just flood the forum with tears as usual. Ugh


The issue with this is I don't want to go to non-empire space unless I want do it. I am not a fan of being forced into a playstyle that I don't want to play. It's akin to Blizzard suddenly making all rogues (or thieves, whatever they are called) warriors without their consent.

The change is a blatant move by CCP to do three things simultaneously:
1.) Punish empire dwellers
2.) Punish WH dwellers
3.) Make life easier on null sec alliances


You do realize that once the prices stop fluctuating and the market has adjusted to the new tax rate, that you will be making at least as much profit as you did before... with the option to make a much higher profit margin if you ever decide "you want" to venture into Low Sec.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Jim Hooknose
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#558 - 2011-12-02 00:55:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Hooknose
Ranger 1 wrote:
You do realize that once the prices stop fluctuating and the market has adjusted to the new tax rate, that you will be making at least as much profit as you did before... with the option to make a much higher profit margin if you ever decide "you want" to venture into Low Sec.


The empire PI market will have to compete with untaxed null/low sec players who also get better yield from their planets. High sec PI's profit will tumble into nothing because they have effectively given null sec a monopoly on PI.

I expected PI to be a viable career in Eve. Not a sub-micro-career.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#559 - 2011-12-02 01:00:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Jim Hooknose wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
You do realize that once the prices stop fluctuating and the market has adjusted to the new tax rate, that you will be making at least as much profit as you did before... with the option to make a much higher profit margin if you ever decide "you want" to venture into Low Sec.


The empire PI market will have to compete with untaxed null/low sec players who also get better yield from their planets. High sec PI's profit will tumble into nothing because they have effectively given null sec a monopoly on PI.

I expected PI to be a viable career in Eve. Not a sub-micro-career.


Amazingly we heard very similar arguments when PI was first introduced to take over from NPC supplies, that Null Sec having vastly superior resources at their disposal would dominate the market, that nobody would do PI in Low sec because it was too dangerous.

Predictably, it was blind unreasoning panic talking.

Same old, same old...

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ahrman Vanaheim
Chimaera Combine
#560 - 2011-12-02 01:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahrman Vanaheim
Perhaps fortunately my little lowsec PI empire was starting to bore me senseless to the point of giving it up - so the tax issue is almost a relief in that at least the short term I won't be doing any more PI.

Regardless, those complaining, probably don't understand that this is a mess that CCP can't back down from. They aren't going to give up their only, rather tenuous, link for EVE to DUST and possibly the millions invested in that game by reverting to the old system, despite enraging large numbers of High/Low/WH PI industrialists. DUST with no EVE link, though possible, would be pointless. We can only hope at this stage that DUST isn't a complete flop. I for one am interested in at least trying it.

FWIW, quick calculations on my lowsec PI showed that the new tax regime, and base prices (I only exported one batch from a planet prior to saying screw it) now sucks up 33% of T1 materials profit.
L4's generally seem to be more engaging, less effort and more profit than PI from 15 planets. Possibly more time consuming, however PI was becoming a misery much like keeping track of POS fuel timers used to be. My hoarded POS fuel materials on the other hand when prices are spiked nicely, will keep me in skill books and ships for years to come, and not running a POS will be nice for those 'downtime' periods we all have from time to time.

Good Luck CCP, I just hope this calculated gamble works and you don't lose more from this than you gain from DUST.