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Why lowsec is a ****hole.
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M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#41 - 2014-04-19 01:01:38 UTC
Lowsec is so much better than sov nullsec is, better even than NPC nullsec is based on my (admittedly limited) experiences in that area. Both in terms of gangs and in regional control fights (fights over towers etc).

Domanique Altares wrote:
Tear Jar wrote:

The problem is that fighting in low kills your sec status.


This is not a problem.


The penalties are even less now than they were, no more kill rights just for shooting someone's ship, its nice.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2014-04-19 11:04:29 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hi.

In EVE Online I do a fair amount of solo and small gang pvp— and I'd like to present my theory on why lowsec is a ****hole.

Firstly, you have most of the powers of nullsec (cynos, bridges, capitals) and fewer drawbacks.

There are no bubbles to catch capital ships, so using them is much less risky. You can bridge very confidently and not have to worry about your fleet being bombed or caught in a warp disruption sphere.

Key ships in lowsec like falcons, link boats, logistics etc are much harder to stop due to the absence of bubbles.
Implants are very difficult to lose, so many people use high grade ones, which gives them a great advantage.

I've personally found that the solo/small gang "good fights" you find in lowsec are much rarer than in nullsec.

I'm not 100% what the solution to this is. For a start, I'd consider nerfing how easy it is to warp off safely with implants in lowsec.
Keep hisec the way it is with implants, so this "style" of play can continue to exist.


Please show us on the doll where the Pirate touched you....
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-04-19 14:28:07 UTC
I cannot get out of silver with zerg Sad.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#44 - 2014-04-21 11:47:42 UTC
Corpii Herald wrote:
Lowsec is a shithole because I live there.

But seriously, for what I do (more pirating and killing people running sites than actually fighting people in PVP capable ships) lowsec is okay imo. I don't really do small gang PVP but I imagine NPC null would be more your thing if you're into that and don't want to deal with sec loss. Lowsec is just what it is in that regard.

I WOULD push for making lowsec a bit more lucrative for the carebear that would be willing to risk a bit more for greater rewards, but then again I like to kill people like that so I'm a bit biased.

There is also FW if you really want to PVP in low but really don't like the idea of sec loss.

the problem for miners in low sec is risk vs reward ,a mac mining ther wont juse mining implants so hi take longer to fill ore hold,filling ore hold give about 7m, hi risk ower 100m for ca 25 minutes,the ganker that wants to gank him only need to risk less than 10m and put him self at risk for less than 2 min,This showe that the miners dissadvantage vs the gankers is more than 1000% when it coms to risk vs reward,btw this game hawe newer been about risk reward only about giving pew pew pilots more to blow up and not losing to manny subs in the prosses.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#45 - 2014-04-21 12:14:25 UTC
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:

the problem for miners in low sec is risk vs reward ,a mac mining ther wont juse mining implants so hi take longer to fill ore hold,filling ore hold give about 7m, hi risk ower 100m for ca 25 minutes,the ganker that wants to gank him only need to risk less than 10m and put him self at risk for less than 2 min,This showe that the miners dissadvantage vs the gankers is more than 1000% when it coms to risk vs reward,btw this game hawe newer been about risk reward only about giving pew pew pilots more to blow up and not losing to manny subs in the prosses.


No its about using your brain to think around problems

All your post contains is problems, and they are easily circumvented.

Instead of pedaling a idea that was old before even EvE existed, why not become part of the solution, instead of claiming there is a problem when there isnt.

And your comment about no risk vs reward is demonstratably untrue.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#46 - 2014-04-22 12:07:49 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:

the problem for miners in low sec is risk vs reward ,a mac mining ther wont juse mining implants so hi take longer to fill ore hold,filling ore hold give about 7m, hi risk ower 100m for ca 25 minutes,the ganker that wants to gank him only need to risk less than 10m and put him self at risk for less than 2 min,This showe that the miners dissadvantage vs the gankers is more than 1000% when it coms to risk vs reward,btw this game hawe newer been about risk reward only about giving pew pew pilots more to blow up and not losing to manny subs in the prosses.


No its about using your brain to think around problems

All your post contains is problems, and they are easily circumvented.

Instead of pedaling a idea that was old before even EvE existed, why not become part of the solution, instead of claiming there is a problem when there isnt.

And your comment about no risk vs reward is demonstratably untrue.

I dont se you stating any fact or info of valu
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#47 - 2014-04-22 12:15:12 UTC
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:

I dont se you stating any fact or info of valu


Ive ALREADY had this discussion with you in a duplicate thread you started, and explained that you are wrong, gave an example of how you were wrong, and had thought you had accepted the fact as given.

What are you having a problem with now?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#48 - 2014-04-22 12:38:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:
the problem for miners in low sec is risk vs reward ,a mac mining ther wont juse mining implants so hi take longer to fill ore hold,filling ore hold give about 7m, hi risk ower 100m for ca 25 minutes,the ganker that wants to gank him only need to risk less than 10m and put him self at risk for less than 2 min,This showe that the miners dissadvantage vs the gankers is more than 1000% when it coms to risk vs reward,btw this game hawe newer been about risk reward only about giving pew pew pilots more to blow up and not losing to manny subs in the prosses.

I think the bigger problem for miners in lowsec is lack of research and selecting a system that is quiet.

Dotlan provides a perfect tool to find quiet systems with belts and icebelts that you could mine in relative peace.

Stay out of the major transport systems and factional warfare areas and there are a lot of lowsec systems that people are only pveing in.

Here are 3 examples from just a quick look at Dotlan with 0 kills in the last 48 hours, low activity and lots of mining available:

- llli
- Esaeel
- Maalna

It's really an issue of risk management in order to gain the rewards that are available there. It's not a limitation of mechanics. It's lowsec afterall.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#49 - 2014-04-22 13:19:44 UTC
Low sec does have some major problems.

I'd like to see Cyno's banned from low sec as they are in high, instead capitals should travel via gates. Cyno blob null style game play is on thing I detest in eve. It takes zero skill what so ever to blob and I'd like to keep that relegated to null. WH style gameplay with fixed gates would be an amazing area to live in eve and would provide a lot of content.
Ramone Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-04-22 13:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramone Ormand
Prince Sanguine wrote:
It seems like the best remedy for this is to stay in null. I rarely venture into any other space unless its hs to gank for the tears. Null is king


ie. "lol just don't go there"

But that doesn't solve the problem at all. That doesn't even bring up the problem. That's not even anything.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#51 - 2014-04-22 13:21:49 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Low sec does have some major problems.

I'd like to see Cyno's banned from low sec as they are in high, instead capitals should travel via gates. Cyno blob null style game play is on thing I detest in eve. It takes zero skill what so ever to blob and I'd like to keep that relegated to null. WH style gameplay with fixed gates would be an amazing area to live in eve and would provide a lot of content.



But.... then every important gate would be a blob...........

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#52 - 2014-04-22 15:29:35 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Low sec does have some major problems.

I'd like to see Cyno's banned from low sec as they are in high, instead capitals should travel via gates. Cyno blob null style game play is on thing I detest in eve. It takes zero skill what so ever to blob and I'd like to keep that relegated to null. WH style gameplay with fixed gates would be an amazing area to live in eve and would provide a lot of content.


Handling logistical work for a PVP corp without JFs would make my brain hurt.

JUSTK is recruiting
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-04-22 15:33:37 UTC
OP: Simply treat Low Sec as some sort of "No Man's Land / Amusement Park" and you're good.

Working as intended.

Keep Training and Carry On.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#54 - 2014-04-22 17:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
I agree on lowsec's status as a ****hole, or rather, nullsec's toilet. But is that a bad thing? I think the knife cuts on both sides.

Lowsec is a "conquest" environment just like null and WH. Different styles, same idea. It's your corp / alliance logo's on stuff in space. Sure, the wooden sign saying "Tresspassers Will Be Shot" is less inviting then nullsec's pearly gates, but that again is the charm of lowsec. Limited resources, you have to use your brain. Cutting down on useless expeditures is a good idea.

And there's the crux. PVP in lowsec is mostly a usueless expediture once you start focussing on the conquest game. Sure, the bounty and loot from a ship are nice wannahaves, but yield no where the reward PVE and conquest do. Basicly it doesn't serve you any higher purpose to kill people that were looking for PVP in the first place, it's just solid fun. So guys like me, who have played for a while, are still gonna sign up for a T1 roam because I have more fun losing 10 ships then losing just 1 of the same price.

That's a different perspective then people with high grade implants use. These people see a personal (solo) challenge in utilizing the best ships they can fly, but given the circumstance and operational cost of their gameplay they have to play predatory and mitigate risk as much as possible. Who do you think has a worse day? The 5 guys losing 2 cruisers before they decided to flee from the Proteus, or the Proteus pilot when one of said cruisers had him perma-jammed? Blink

The one thing I find wrong with lowsec is it's weird restrictions... a Titan bridge is apparantly OK while using a bomb from a launcher is deemed too much overkill. In that respect lowsec will always be victimized by null as lowsec profits simply don't buy as much war materials as nullsec does. Combine that with the power projection issue, low actually being the first non-hisec "sec" a new player will visit, and you have asymmetrical gameplay. That begs the question....

...is that a bad thing?
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#55 - 2014-04-22 17:26:50 UTC
Frak, double post, my bad. Please delete.
Salvos Rhoska
#56 - 2014-04-22 17:32:30 UTC
I have great respect for low-sec denizens.
They live between a rock and a hard place, with precious little reward.
That takes bigger balls than brains.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-04-22 17:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:
the problem for miners in low sec is risk vs reward ,a mac mining ther wont juse mining implants so hi take longer to fill ore hold,filling ore hold give about 7m, hi risk ower 100m for ca 25 minutes,the ganker that wants to gank him only need to risk less than 10m and put him self at risk for less than 2 min,This showe that the miners dissadvantage vs the gankers is more than 1000% when it coms to risk vs reward,btw this game hawe newer been about risk reward only about giving pew pew pilots more to blow up and not losing to manny subs in the prosses.

I think the bigger problem for miners in lowsec is lack of research and selecting a system that is quiet.

Dotlan provides a perfect tool to find quiet systems with belts and icebelts that you could mine in relative peace.

Stay out of the major transport systems and factional warfare areas and there are a lot of lowsec systems that people are only pveing in.

Here are 3 examples from just a quick look at Dotlan with 0 kills in the last 48 hours, low activity and lots of mining available:

- llli
- Esaeel
- Maalna

It's really an issue of risk management in order to gain the rewards that are available there. It's not a limitation of mechanics. It's lowsec afterall.


While I agree with your advise about selecting a quite place, Zeera's point about the risk/reward still seems valid. It is possible to select a quiet place in lowsec to mine. But eventually the hunter will still come along and blow up your ship. You have to build this cost into the expected returns. I'm no miner, but when compared to the almost 0 risk in hisec, it doesn't seem like the much elevated risk in lowsec would be worth it for the isk. It may be that you need the minerals that are in lowsec and can't get them in hisec. But just isk/hr it doesn't seem like it would be worth it.

All that to me means that lowsec should get buffed to match the increased risk or hisec should get nerfed for the same reason. Until that day, which will likely never come, mining in hisec or nullsec SOV space seems to be a much better deal.

Quote:

this game hawe newer been about risk reward only about giving pew pew pilots more to blow up and not losing to manny subs in the prosses.


This game seems to have always been about providing a sandbox for a variety of play styles. It is true that when doing any sort of PvE you are prey to be hunted. But this is the way it is in the real world as well. The lion does not look for gudfights. The lion looks for the wildebeast. But in EvE as prey, you have many options to thwart the hunter. Scipio listed one of them above.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#58 - 2014-04-22 18:07:10 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I have great respect for low-sec denizens.
They live between a rock and a hard place, with precious little reward.
That takes bigger balls than brains.


I have respect for them too, they are at least taking some risk.

But 'precious little reward'? I really....don't think so. That's not even touching on the ridiculously easy to blitz lvl 5 missions.
Salvos Rhoska
#59 - 2014-04-22 18:13:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Jenn aSide wrote:
I really

Call me nub, but I couldn't make any sense of that.

But I was excited at the start when I thought for a second it meant I could run a L5 in a Vagabond...

Edited to add: That guy needs to get laid. Badly.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
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