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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Kaddiska
O-NIWABAN
#1021 - 2014-04-21 01:37:07 UTC
@epic

I can remember the last time you spent so much time debating a particular idea on the forums (the Nestor).
At that point in time you wanted a covert ops cloak bonus added to the new SOE battleship.
...granted, the Nestor still sucks, but that's neither here nor there...

This time around you want to take all the new goodies and still keep the old ones (yeah, I´m talking about your light-drones bonus idea on the RS).

You seriously need to take a break.

Drones are kinda your thing, I get that.
And sometimes, CCP will change things in some way that messes up your plan, training queue, whatever...

Don't mean you have to get all exited on these common forums and start calling people names.
You really have to stop that.

I've been a drone user for many years (ok, 9 years so far.....and hey! guess what, this is not my only char....)
The RS, in its current, unchanged form, lacks......something.
It´s not the multi-omni-pwn-brick that some people claim it is.

The new version brings possibilities.
More possibilities than the current version.
YES, it does!

Drones or missile focus is really beside the point here, my friend.
In Eve all things change.
You adapt, or you ragequit.
Either way is fine.
Just stop trowing s**t at people just because you disagree with them
And..NO, they are not all trolls because they do not share your point of view.
If that is your constant and (only) fall-back position, you really need to have to closer look at your issues.

tl:dr
the new RS brings (new) possibilities
the new drone doctrine HAS YET TO BE TESTED AND TRIED!!
the Nestor still sucks
you do NOT NEED bonused light drones to clear frigs....really!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1022 - 2014-04-21 01:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Joe Boirele wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Arthur; Yes there are rigs that can greatly increase the application issues with heavy drones but the trade off is changing what is now one of the best tanking drone battleships into a missile boat, with far less EHP than is currently available to it.
Give Guristas cruiser and battleship a special role bonus -- 37.5% reduced reload time for Rapid Launchers (21 second reload). Could be a nice trade off, without making either ship OP.


That role bonus would probably eliminate any diversity from missile launcher selection.

Not really, I can still see situations where I would use Cruise missile launchers on a snake even with a special bonus to Rapids.

My thoughts are moving in the direction of a Pvp Snake.
It without a doubt has the worst, primary attributes (speed, align time, sig radius, etc) of all the Pirate battleships.
Give it something special - Bhaal has Nos, Neuts - Mach has speed, agility - Vindi has web - Nightmare, well if i was running incursions it would be my choice. Not sure about its Pvp application, never flown one.

Rattlesnake with a bonus to Rapid Launchers reload time, would not be OP but would give it that little something to make it viable as a Pvp ship and get it out of mission sites and Anoms..


It is a really nice concept, do people use Pirate ships for PvP, I honestly don't know, but it certainly would make it interesting and a real surprise if someone engaged it. Drakes make a great PvP ship in Wh, no reason why this could not do a much better job.

I put in a reply an idea where instead of a fifth launcher we gave a 25% bonus to reload time, clip size and rate of fire, to try to achieve what you suggested,but to get rid of the 5Th launcher to free up the DLA and make it for all missiles.

would that achieve the same goal (and solve a drone issue)?

I would never have thought about it if you had not posted your idea, so not trying to steal a good idea, just expand on your excellent one.

I think CCP rise would be happy to see it used more.
let me know what you think, either way your idea is definitely worth expanding on.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1023 - 2014-04-21 04:18:28 UTC
Entirely missile-based Pirate Battleship: TAKE MY MONEY! (PLESK)
Enough of this drone crap...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#1024 - 2014-04-21 05:08:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Perhaps you guys misunderstood my statement.

Sgt Ocker said: "It has completely changed the way the ship can be played"

How? You lost bonused light and medium drones. Is there anyone here who buys a faction battleship to use light drones? *crickets*

So can anyone please tell me how using unbonused light drones to scrape frigate rats off of you (like damn near every other battleship) "completely changes the way the ship can be played"?

It can fit 100m3 worth of heavy/sentry drones, and 3 full flights of light sized drones, so I know the dronebay loss can't be it.

So seriously, can someone tell me what the big freaking deal is?


There isnt one for the most part. Some people dont handle change very well, even if said change is for their own good.

Oderint Dum Metuant
Tempban Darkfall
Darkfall Corp
#1025 - 2014-04-21 05:48:56 UTC
If these changes go through, the Devs will just have to rebalanced Guristas again further on down the road. These are terrible ideas that are totally unnecessary and will only lose CCP more customers. All that Guristas needs to become in-line is more high/mid/low slots.

Let the devs create new ships if they want specialized, gimped drone boats that only use 2 drones.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1026 - 2014-04-21 05:50:02 UTC
Tempban Darkfall wrote:
If these changes go through, the Devs will just have to rebalanced Guristas again further on down the road. These are terrible ideas that are totally unnecessary and will only lose CCP more customers. All that Guristas needs to become in-line is more high/mid/low slots.

Let the devs create new ships if they want specialized, gimped drone boats that only use 2 drones.


Or not.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1027 - 2014-04-21 05:51:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The ship is getting a bonus to all types of missiles, its more adaptable then before and the drone changes means they can now justify a logi repping them. The new rattle is a lot more versatile than the old one which is seen as the worst of the pirate BS and less useful than most t1 hulls.
The ironic thing here is if CCP does actually create a true missile pirate faction we'll be right back here at the same spot with the RS being the worst of the pirate hull due to lack of focus.


Unlikely. The rattle has a bonus to all missiles where as any missile focused pirate battleship would likely only focus on torps and cruise bonuses with most likely a TP bonus. The rattle will still hold a valuable position as a very adaptable missile/drone ship.
Could just be my pessimistic/uncreative side, but loading RLML on the RS seems like a waste now that it has the potential damage output that it does. Moreso considering it makes sense to fit DDA's on it making lights more effective. On others a TP bonus would likely help them bridge the gap as, if I understand correctly, a missile damage bonus for a BS would include RHML, just not application bonuses.

I'm not saying it won't be unique, I'm just questioning if unique is enough to be a good draw if others can be made more effective, but that's all mostly being very speculative.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1028 - 2014-04-21 05:57:23 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The ship is getting a bonus to all types of missiles, its more adaptable then before and the drone changes means they can now justify a logi repping them. The new rattle is a lot more versatile than the old one which is seen as the worst of the pirate BS and less useful than most t1 hulls.
The ironic thing here is if CCP does actually create a true missile pirate faction we'll be right back here at the same spot with the RS being the worst of the pirate hull due to lack of focus.


Unlikely. The rattle has a bonus to all missiles where as any missile focused pirate battleship would likely only focus on torps and cruise bonuses with most likely a TP bonus. The rattle will still hold a valuable position as a very adaptable missile/drone ship.
Could just be my pessimistic/uncreative side, but loading RLML on the RS seems like a waste now that it has the potential damage output that it does. Moreso considering it makes sense to fit DDA's on it making lights more effective. On others a TP bonus would likely help them bridge the gap as, if I understand correctly, a missile damage bonus for a BS would include RHML, just not application bonuses.

I'm not saying it won't be unique, I'm just questioning if unique is enough to be a good draw if others can be made more effective, but that's all mostly being very speculative.


Haven flown an unbonused raven with rapid lights and light drones I can safely say a RLML rattle is going to be very deadly to frigates.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1029 - 2014-04-21 06:00:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Haven flown an unbonused raven with rapid lights and light drones I can safely say a RLML rattle is going to be very deadly to frigates.

I can see that, I'm just afraid such specialist cases won't make for a high draw for the ship in the case of a true missile powerhouse that one has a reason to chose over the currently proposed RS.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1030 - 2014-04-21 06:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Haven flown an unbonused raven with rapid lights and light drones I can safely say a RLML rattle is going to be very deadly to frigates.

I can see that, I'm just afraid such specialist cases won't make for a high draw for the ship in the case of a true missile powerhouse that one has a reason to chose over the currently proposed RS.


Given that the biggest item on the wishlist of the EVE community is an armour tanking, black abaddon hull with cruise/torp bonuses I wouldn't worry yourself about this.

The rattle will still be a solid platform and one of the most adaptable BS on the market.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1031 - 2014-04-21 07:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
With the current changes, every pirate battleship will have a useful and unique specialty on the field:

Vindicator: Webs (I seem to recall it also has very good melee-range DPS?)

Bhaalgorn: Cap warfare

Machariel: Speed (both warp and subwarp), agility

Rattlesnake: MURDER

Excellent work, CCP Rise. I'm not even being sarcastic. Really. I'm not.
Graybie Tsero
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1032 - 2014-04-21 07:23:31 UTC
Read like 40 pages of this thread....my head hurts. By far the best idea so far has been giving the RS that 25km drone range bonus to allow it to have a full rack of missiles as well as being able to use sentries at MJD range. Would be very nice.

That said, if I was gonna use the RS to snipe with the sentries, I don't think I would mind using a drone range rig at the cost of a smaller tank.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1033 - 2014-04-21 07:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Entirely missile-based Pirate Battleship: TAKE MY MONEY! (PLESK)
Enough of this drone crap...



Hi arthur, nice to see another sane face,*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

The rattlesnake is unquestionably unloved, currently it does sentries sort of adequately the other drones sort of ok, and missiles badly. Making it so it does sentries adequately (2v5 is not going to change much) and the rest of the drones worse and make the missiles adequate, is not seeming like a pirate missile battleship.

Tiny tiny changes will make this ship a good all rounder, with decent drones and decent missile skills, good fun to fly, without the changes, meh not so much.

A good all rounder is a good healthy role,

As for a pure missile pirate battleship? That does missiles well? Oh yes please. *want one* drool.


But I would like this ship to be good at what it does, and do many others, shame we are outnumbered by the troll/s (who knows or cares) well outshouted anyway.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Ahernar
Perkone
Caldari State
#1034 - 2014-04-21 07:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahernar
"That said, if I was gonna use the RS to snipe with the sentries, I don't think I would mind using a drone range rig at the cost of a smaller tank."

Very valid option too , except there are some problems with CPU limiting the fitting options ( one more launcher and some less cpu = some trouble on the fitting front )
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1035 - 2014-04-21 10:51:23 UTC
A pilot who is not operating at sniping ranges does not need the DLA. A Rattlesnake has plenty of tank to handle being within 60km.
Stjaerna Ramundson
#1036 - 2014-04-21 14:24:32 UTC
Do you (CCP) keep in mind that the Drones will lose 50% of damage if they miss cause of the max 2 drone system?

It is a bit more acceptable if you have 4 or more (like turret/missile ships) factor for this lose of damage.
A miss of a turret in a group of 4 or up to 8 turrets* are more comfortable than this change. Your main intention of reduce the server load is understandable.


* or missile bay


baltec1 wrote:

You cannot replace losses effectively and the market is far too easily manipulated.


That is a form of bad logistic but don't have to do anything with a group of players they are sitting at a gate in High Sec or Low Sec or 0.0 and waiting for a bit fun. ^^



Personal opinion:
I still missing a full drone focused ship as a faction ship or Marauder. (For Faction variant we could use Rogue and Sleeper drone hull that are got overworked and flyable by capsule pilots) [would have a idea for it ;D]
  1. Eigenen Beitrag mit sachliche Argumentationen, Problemschilderung, Erklärung, Lösungsansätzen formulieren.
  2. Beitrag enthält eine eigene Meinung im Fazit zum Thema.
  3. Negative Äußerungen, Drohungen usw. gegenüber Nutzern haben in der Meinung nichts zu suchen.
Ahernar
Perkone
Caldari State
#1037 - 2014-04-21 14:27:58 UTC
You see ... the ideea isn't if you like the ship or not or that if you are content or not . The ideea is to buff the rs TO THE LEVEL of the OTHER pirate BS's . Making it the best Gurista /Serpentis anom runner is not something i call gameplay niche - but if ccp wants let it bee :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1038 - 2014-04-21 14:39:49 UTC
Stjaerna Ramundson wrote:


baltec1 wrote:

You cannot replace losses effectively and the market is far too easily manipulated.


That is a form of bad logistic but don't have to do anything with a group of players they are sitting at a gate in High Sec or Low Sec or 0.0 and waiting for a bit fun. ^^



Personal opinion:
I still missing a full drone focused ship as a faction ship or Marauder. (For Faction variant we could use Rogue and Sleeper drone hull that are got overworked and flyable by capsule pilots) [would have a idea for it ;D]


Oh for small gang stuff they are very viable. I was on about CFC level fleets, there simply isnt enough supply.

alas, the Japan issue domi is a dream we all must wait on happening.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1039 - 2014-04-21 14:42:08 UTC
"Japan-Issue Dominix"? You mean that Rogue Drone one? I thought CCP put the nails in that coffin a while ago, saying something very close to "rogue drone ships would consume the capsuleer inside them".
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1040 - 2014-04-21 14:44:38 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
"Japan-Issue Dominix"? You mean that Rogue Drone one? I thought CCP put the nails in that coffin a while ago, saying something very close to "rogue drone ships would consume the capsuleer inside them".


Doesnt stop us wanting it. Its like my wish for a mega with a capital jump drive bolted onto it.