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CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#421 - 2014-04-16 18:38:31 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
no, they sound quite awesome the way they are.

but you should look forward to Valkyrie then - it has a "kind of" similar sound to it.
but if you don't think they sound beefy in EVE, then I assume you either zoom out a lot or you haven't really fired up your audio system.

have in mind that there is quite a big different between being sat right behind a gun being fired inside a cockpit, than being a 3rd party camera far away.

Ain't gonna say anything related to Star Citizen, other than I was expecting more, from that game play vid.


Sad times. And no I don't have my camera zoomed out all the way. And I assure you guns don't sound anything like what I would expect on the low end. I don't have a crap system, but I dont have a high end one either.

(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121122)

We will have to agree to disagree on the guns sounding fine issue. As it is any size of hybrid sound like pea shooters, and my system is in no way responsible for that as other games don't have this problem.


It's a cool discussion. no doubt about it.
Sometimes, (when people say they want more bass or bottom on them) I really wonder if they actually mean that specifically- or if it's a term they use for something else. (not saying that you are in the specific situation)

It's just, something I sometimes think of, as I used to work in music studios and heard tons of musicians speak of "it needs more warmth" - which may be a legit way of explaining something, but is totally useless between people as warmth in a sound may be different to you than me.
Here is a link to my personal soundcloud page, with a mix of some of the raw auto cannon sounds. Personally I don't hear any lack of bottom, smack, pang, pow or anything. but if you are into a different style of sound, of course, then it's a different matter.

The sounds in Valkyrie, when being first person and watching the auto cannons, are "the same style" as those heard in Star Citizen, yet better of course ;)
EVE Guns : Auto Cannons, various sizes

feel free to go and listen to some of the other stuff there, there are tons of snippets from various small stuff in EVE.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Valterra Craven
#422 - 2014-04-16 19:24:47 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:


It's a cool discussion. no doubt about it.
Sometimes, (when people say they want more bass or bottom on them) I really wonder if they actually mean that specifically- or if it's a term they use for something else. (not saying that you are in the specific situation)

It's just, something I sometimes think of, as I used to work in music studios and heard tons of musicians speak of "it needs more warmth" - which may be a legit way of explaining something, but is totally useless between people as warmth in a sound may be different to you than me.
Here is a link to my personal soundcloud page, with a mix of some of the raw auto cannon sounds. Personally I don't hear any lack of bottom, smack, pang, pow or anything. but if you are into a different style of sound, of course, then it's a different matter.

The sounds in Valkyrie, when being first person and watching the auto cannons, are "the same style" as those heard in Star Citizen, yet better of course ;)
EVE Guns : Auto Cannons, various sizes

feel free to go and listen to some of the other stuff there, there are tons of snippets from various small stuff in EVE.


At this point I'm just happy to be engaging with a Dev period.... Alot of the dev blogs don't really see "discussion" between players and devs. I understand it is how it is, only one or two of you and thousands of us, but we can dream no?

In any case, the autocannon sounds you linked are kind of a good example of how I don't see the sounds really matching up to the expectations of how things should sound. I know that sound should mirror the function of the guns for playability reasons, but when I think of an autocannon, I don't envision hearing it pop of a couple shots every few seconds, like the sounds you linked. You think of something rapid firing constantly.. like the ones in the Star Citizen vid. I understand this doesn't match up with how the guns work in Eve and that's not something you can fix. But to be honest I'm less concerned with auto's since I don't actually use anything other than missiles (which I think sound fine btw) and rail hybrids.

So I'm not sure if you play other games or not, but the kind of low end sounds I'm looking for don't seem to exist in eve
Skyrim is a good example of the type of sounds I'm looking for. I know intros annoy the mess out of people after you hear them for so long, but on my system the Skyrim intro has what I would call "real" low end sounds (and take what I say with a grain of salt, because I am no sound engineer nor do I have experience in that field) In other words, when I open that game up the drums of the intro kind of envelop me so to speak.

I guess what I'm getting at is that while the sounds of Eve may have "low end" sound they don't have the same feel or weight that the low end sounds in other games do.

Again Keep in mind I'm always zoomed into my ships because I do like to hear things given that I multi-box, so thats not the issue. (Sounds can be an important clue to pay attention to another account depending on context)

In the mean time, I will try to listen to more things on your page to give you some examples to work on. (You have a cool page btw, so thanks for sharing!)
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#423 - 2014-04-16 19:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
Ah, that's because you think of it as a sort of Gatling gun. I see what you mean in that direction, for sure.

(perhaps I should mention here, that we are talking about going through the "new" 2012 designs of the turrets again, also for performance issues. but that would give them a new sound too.)

And thanks for multiboxing and playing with sound, I do the same thing when I play EVE, I really like it that way.
I do see where you are going with the comments on how things should sound, and one important thing here is taste (not saying that you are total judge and saying this is bad taste and yours is better) but the sounds of an inside cockpit vs. outside are of course different.

yet I do agree, that a few mega pops from a gun, can seem a bit odd compared to what one would expect, if one is expecting it to fire thousands of rounds in a sec, like a Gatling.

(And please don't post that vid of the airplanes firing Gatlings, as they will NEVER get to sound like that!!! - It got posted so often in the past, I drove me nuts)

also, speaking of what this whole thing started with, now that I know how you play the game, you too will also like the new stuff going in , though it's not new turret sounds ;)

and thanks for liking the page.. enjoy all the track pics of my daughter :D haha

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Valterra Craven
#424 - 2014-04-16 19:54:05 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
but the sounds of an inside cockpit vs. outside are of course different.



That's sorta where I'm coming from which I suppose is the central "rub" of the issue. In other words, as players we don't ever get a "cockpit" vantage point. The only thing we interface with is the overview and the camera's that show us an outside perspective. Given that Valk hasn't been released yet, the primary focus IMO should be on what things sound like outside the cockpit, aka no "walls" or other impediment to sounds. Though I do understand that space has very little oxygen/ other matter to carry sounds, but lets not go down that road...

Short of what I'm saying is that because of the sound vantage point in eve, I would think guns should sound more epic.. aka that if you are zoomed in, it should feel like you are standing next to them and that means them carrying more "weight" than they do currently.
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#425 - 2014-04-16 19:58:04 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
but the sounds of an inside cockpit vs. outside are of course different.



That's sorta where I'm coming from which I suppose is the central "rub" of the issue. In other words, as players we don't ever get a "cockpit" vantage point. The only thing we interface with is the overview and the camera's that show us an outside perspective. Given that Valk hasn't been released yet, the primary focus IMO should be on what things sound like outside the cockpit, aka no "walls" or other impediment to sounds. Though I do understand that space has very little oxygen/ other matter to carry sounds, but lets not go down that road...

Short of what I'm saying is that because of the sound vantage point in eve, I would think guns should sound more epic.. aka that if you are zoomed in, it should feel like you are standing next to them and that means them carrying more "weight" than they do currently.


actually there are theories on that sound does actually move through the dark matter of space and other things, but making vibrations within what we call "sound" inaudible, so it's only like extremely low frequencies that are detectable.
so saying there is no sound in space is both valid and invalid. (and it starts a serious flame war if you say something like that at the conservatory of music, like I did one when I was a student t here)

but you are making some really good points here. and some of the guns do need a revamp and I'm actually just defending something that I know I will eventually change anyway, and there really is no point in that :D

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#426 - 2014-04-16 20:51:06 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:

(And please don't post that vid of the airplanes firing Gatlings, as they will NEVER get to sound like that!!! - It got posted so often in the past, I drove me nuts)

can we link the freespace 2 beam weapon sound vid instead Evil

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#427 - 2014-04-16 20:52:10 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:

(And please don't post that vid of the airplanes firing Gatlings, as they will NEVER get to sound like that!!! - It got posted so often in the past, I drove me nuts)

can we link the freespace 2 beam weapon sound vid instead Evil


ha. yea, those were heavily linked before as well.
for beam weapons though. they do have a different technology over there in freespace, that's outside EDEN territory.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#428 - 2014-04-16 22:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Pertuabo Enkidgan
Hey uh
Ignore if already answered, but engine hums are gone. not talking about MWD but the hums themselves are gone.

Why?


Also now that we're talking about lasers; When they impact you they make that stock trashcan-like noise, like a fence/piece of metal being stumped in by something large. The older ones sounded more like extremely hot is hitting you, especially the le4 to le5(can't remember large lasersthose were) Can you change something about that if you aren't going to do turrets now?

That's also something I miss in some of these turrets. They have differences but (not enough!) the impact of them sound too similar to eachother. Like Medium Pulse Laser has the same impact audioish as Focused Medium Pulse.

Hats off to the Gallentean women chanting stuff in the station btw, love that touch
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#429 - 2014-04-17 11:19:46 UTC
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:
Hey uh
Ignore if already answered, but engine hums are gone. not talking about MWD but the hums themselves are gone.

Why?


Also now that we're talking about lasers; When they impact you they make that stock trashcan-like noise, like a fence/piece of metal being stumped in by something large. The older ones sounded more like extremely hot is hitting you, especially the le4 to le5(can't remember large lasersthose were) Can you change something about that if you aren't going to do turrets now?

That's also something I miss in some of these turrets. They have differences but (not enough!) the impact of them sound too similar to eachother. Like Medium Pulse Laser has the same impact audioish as Focused Medium Pulse.

Hats off to the Gallentean women chanting stuff in the station btw, love that touch


It's not answered. the engine hum is not "gone" - there is a technical issue, that should have been fixed (which I can tell it's not)
but if you dock and undock again, are they still gone?
they are supposed to be there.

actually, all the ships are suppose to have NEW engine hums. and THAT I know, because I made them all :D

the impacts. hmm. I think those stayed the same. not sure, but I'll check it out. it's part of my personal plan to make it sound not as canny as it does now in all manners.
and the turrets sounding to much alike, I totally agree with. like written just before this one, is that all the turrets will at some point really soon, get a shake in the bag.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Valterra Craven
#430 - 2014-04-17 13:31:46 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
get a shake in the bag.


I like you :)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#431 - 2014-04-17 16:17:12 UTC
i forgot to say thank you for removing the gate sparks sound which ended up looping all the time!

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#432 - 2014-04-18 17:17:10 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
i forgot to say thank you for removing the gate sparks sound which ended up looping all the time!


Uhm, that vanished by mistake actually.
but we fixed the loop right before it vanished.

so be prepared for it coming back ;) but working. ;)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#433 - 2014-04-19 13:47:26 UTC
Are you guys making any changes to the turret sounds in this summer expansion? The current turret sounds sound so pathetic in my opinion, auto-cannons aren't too bad but the rest sound like im shooting BB guns. Very underwhelming.

Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever!
Solecist Project
#434 - 2014-04-19 14:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
I take back my angry post.



It's not going to change anything and it isn't your fault.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#435 - 2014-04-19 17:52:12 UTC
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:
Are you guys making any changes to the turret sounds in this summer expansion? The current turret sounds sound so pathetic in my opinion, auto-cannons aren't too bad but the rest sound like im shooting BB guns. Very underwhelming.


right now.. no.
BUT. it all depends on how fast I can finish some other things, if I can do that in time and have some spare hours left towards release, I'll give them a go.

one thing though, is that it's really difficult to make them sound "not like BB guns".
I do think they sound cool and that they have a lot of power in them, but the way EVE is setup technically and the way that the game is most often played, makes it quite difficult to make the game sound powerful.

but you are right. I did these new turrets, which I did believe was an upgrade from the old ones, but still not enough, back in 2012 - it's time they get a serious replacement and not just a small upgrade like last time.

but know that I also have an open mailbox for when I do this, which is right next to my door, in a trashcan!!! the amount of hate mail and death threats I get every time I change something, like last time, is quite substantial!!!

again, let me know if you guys are coming to Fanfest, we could have a nice sober and then a drunk chat about turrets and stuff, we might find a solution to the answer 42 anyway.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#436 - 2014-04-19 18:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:
Are you guys making any changes to the turret sounds in this summer expansion? The current turret sounds sound so pathetic in my opinion, auto-cannons aren't too bad but the rest sound like im shooting BB guns. Very underwhelming.


right now.. no.
BUT. it all depends on how fast I can finish some other things, if I can do that in time and have some spare hours left towards release, I'll give them a go.

one thing though, is that it's really difficult to make them sound "not like BB guns".
I do think they sound cool and that they have a lot of power in them, but the way EVE is setup technically and the way that the game is most often played, makes it quite difficult to make the game sound powerful.

but you are right. I did these new turrets, which I did believe was an upgrade from the old ones, but still not enough, back in 2012 - it's time they get a serious replacement and not just a small upgrade like last time.

but know that I also have an open mailbox for when I do this, which is right next to my door, in a trashcan!!! the amount of hate mail and death threats I get every time I change something, like last time, is quite substantial!!!

again, let me know if you guys are coming to Fanfest, we could have a nice sober and then a drunk chat about turrets and stuff, we might find a solution to the answer 42 anyway.


For those of us who aren't going to make it to FanFest, will the sound presentations have a slot on the stream? Maybe I'm in the minority, but if there's brand new groundbreaking announcements to be made about EVE's sound, I'd certainly like to see them myself rather than getting the condensed highlights in a devblog.
Valterra Craven
#437 - 2014-04-20 04:21:57 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
we could have a nice sober and then a drunk chat about turrets and stuff, we might find a solution to the answer 42 anyway.


You are now in my list of top fav Devs, PUNKTURIS just because well... that should be obvious... but you without actually giving me better turret sounds have the made list just cuz you are so damn cool.

Maybe they could do the spotlight on an important dev like yourself instead of Rise...
Valterra Craven
#438 - 2014-04-20 04:24:11 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

For those of us who aren't going to make it to FanFest, will the sound presentations have a slot on the stream? Maybe I'm in the minority, but if there's brand new groundbreaking announcements to be made about EVE's sound, I'd certainly like to see them myself rather than getting the condensed highlights in a devblog.


I wouldn't worry too much about it. They uploaded the entire fanfest panel list last year to youtube. In fact, even the vegas panels made it up. You should check out CCPs youtube channel, lots of reat stuff there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/CCPGAMES/videos
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#439 - 2014-04-20 09:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Liner Xiandra
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:
Hey uh
Ignore if already answered, but engine hums are gone. not talking about MWD but the hums themselves are gone.

but if you dock and undock again, are they still gone?
they are supposed to be there.


I've not heard engine hums, nor afterburner or MWD sounds at all in game, since the MWD sound got patched out again to get fixed. So a good couple of months now. I think I've bugreported it a few times now as well.

edit: after checking SiSi again:

Oh wow, it's actually there. Even the faintest whisper has more loudness to it though. It's drowned out completely by the humm of stations/gates/celestials.

Can the volume slider on these be turned up to 11 please? Not kidding.
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#440 - 2014-04-20 17:24:22 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

For those of us who aren't going to make it to FanFest, will the sound presentations have a slot on the stream? Maybe I'm in the minority, but if there's brand new groundbreaking announcements to be made about EVE's sound, I'd certainly like to see them myself rather than getting the condensed highlights in a devblog.


Not, I don't think it will make it into the stream actually.
BUT, the stuff I am going to present and talk about at the audio round table, is also in the EVE keynote - of course in a quite limited version, but it will give the overall picture.

Don't know if I can manage to find a camera and record the audio session, but if I do, I can make a recording of it.
a dev blog is coming as well, but I agree, they are often just reference material and not really digging deep into how stuff works and ideas and thoughts behind it.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.