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Plex prices, economics and CCP's responsibility

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Master Flakattack
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-04-20 03:45:57 UTC
Are you guys kidding? CCP has almost total control over PLEX price in-game. If they lower the RL cost, more PLEX are sold, and in-game price will decrease. The opposite obviously also holds true. Remember, PLEX wasn't always $19.99.

The fact that CCP isn't having a PLEX sale and isn't doing anything else to adjust in-game price suggests to me that the current in-game price is a non-issue to them.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#42 - 2014-04-20 04:11:58 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
The prices are rising because the demand is higher then the supply. This happens when people buy lots of plexes and hold them. Eventually the price will hit a point where joe blow who is sitting on hundreds of plexes will unload. Or someone with an American express black card wlll buy a boat load and cash them in. When that happens the price will crash. The other side of this, is the plex will eventually hit a price where players will go 'hell I am NOT paying that!' and then demand will drop. Then again the price will fall.



'dis

nuff said.

Also stop purchasing plex with all of the isk you made in the game :X purchase plex:
1. u need it for specific reason.
2. you got loads of isk unused in your wallet.


I have a question about the portion you bolded/emphasized:

What evidence is there that there are people purchasing and holding PLEX? If one subscribes to the DaReaper theory, the only thing higher prices indicate is a lower supply on the market. It could be that fewer people are purchasing PLEX to sell in-game.

I'm just looking for clarification: Where is the evidence that people are "buying lots of plexes and holding them."

Or maybe I'm confusing the actual purchase of PLEX with real world money and purchasing/reselling in-game? The main thing CCP is concerned about is the former. It's the only way the in-game PLEX supply can be significantly affected. While I don't doubt that there are players who speculate in the in-game PLEX market, the flow of new PLEX into the game (or lack thereof) is likely a greater factor, IMO. Of course, the lower that volume becomes*, the more of an influence the PLEX hoarders will have on pricing.

But I guess that's one of those "unprovable" points, since I don't think we get to see new PLEX/GTC sales numbers.

KB

*This isn't intended as a stealth "EvE is dying post." Apparent sub numbers don't support that POV.

Dum Spiro Spero
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#43 - 2014-04-20 04:33:23 UTC
Well some people buy them up when they expect the price to go up. And if they don't many of them aren't going to rush headlong into a loss.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#44 - 2014-04-20 06:37:37 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
The prices are rising because the demand is higher then the supply. This happens when people buy lots of plexes and hold them. Eventually the price will hit a point where joe blow who is sitting on hundreds of plexes will unload. Or someone with an American express black card wlll buy a boat load and cash them in. When that happens the price will crash. The other side of this, is the plex will eventually hit a price where players will go 'hell I am NOT paying that!' and then demand will drop. Then again the price will fall.



'dis

nuff said.

Also stop purchasing plex with all of the isk you made in the game :X purchase plex:
1. u need it for specific reason.
2. you got loads of isk unused in your wallet.


I have a question about the portion you bolded/emphasized:

What evidence is there that there are people purchasing and holding PLEX? If one subscribes to the DaReaper theory, the only thing higher prices indicate is a lower supply on the market. It could be that fewer people are purchasing PLEX to sell in-game.

I'm just looking for clarification: Where is the evidence that people are "buying lots of plexes and holding them."

Or maybe I'm confusing the actual purchase of PLEX with real world money and purchasing/reselling in-game? The main thing CCP is concerned about is the former. It's the only way the in-game PLEX supply can be significantly affected. While I don't doubt that there are players who speculate in the in-game PLEX market, the flow of new PLEX into the game (or lack thereof) is likely a greater factor, IMO. Of course, the lower that volume becomes*, the more of an influence the PLEX hoarders will have on pricing.

But I guess that's one of those "unprovable" points, since I don't think we get to see new PLEX/GTC sales numbers.

KB

*This isn't intended as a stealth "EvE is dying post." Apparent sub numbers don't support that POV.


As this is like the 20th thread on this topic, in a few of the other ones, people stated that they at some point converted all there isk to plex before taking a break. In the hopes the prices would rise. They are slowly selling them back for profit as they need money. So if a small % of the people who read the forums are doing this, and a small % of eve population read the forums, then it is safe to assume that some people, probable market traders, who wanted a stable long term investment, spent a lot of iskies on plex. And as there was a numbers of a few thousand or so unused plex's in another forum, its safe to assume there are people hording them.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Kudos12345
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-04-20 07:08:15 UTC
I don't think much is gonna work here, its the PLEX sellers that control the market. Its the PLEX sellers who pay for CCP's actual costs, its the plex sellers and subscriptions that pay for EVE.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#46 - 2014-04-21 15:06:11 UTC
Master Flakattack wrote:
Are you guys kidding? CCP has almost total control over PLEX price in-game. If they lower the RL cost, more PLEX are sold, and in-game price will decrease. The opposite obviously also holds true. Remember, PLEX wasn't always $19.99.

The fact that CCP isn't having a PLEX sale and isn't doing anything else to adjust in-game price suggests to me that the current in-game price is a non-issue to them.



I'm not really sure what you are looking at, but I have seen about 4 different plex sales the past few weeks. The little ads pop up on the bottom of the launcher. And that won't change ingame prices. A plex costing a few $$$ less still wonlt change the fact that someone has to buy them and then convert them. Its the same principle. In theory, the plex price in game rising will cause someone who would not of normally bought a plex to sell, to go out and buy a plex. That's how economics 101 works. And even if CCP sold plex's for a week for $1 doesn't guarantee the ingame price will drop. As someone could decide to but a bunch and sit and wait on them. So as I said, CCP has NO control over plex prices. As in the ingame price.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#47 - 2014-04-21 15:11:19 UTC
"CCP's responsibility"

Laugh? I nearly shat

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-04-21 19:23:17 UTC
Orla- King-Griffin wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote a blog on Evenews24 .....



Pretty much stopped reading right there.

You would have gotten better information from the crazy cat lady who lives under an overpass.


;lzj;kfeshlk;sdfj;lkhdshd\oids\fj
lkfgjklflkjvdx;idzop\sgma';lfkdj\[dflk
;lkiljhjlihohi'oioiuyuyinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn pop!
lkkjdhlglugulkglugligi;uiguoooooooooooooooooooooooooo?
kuhgffghfgkdygtkytdkkfddytk!

Of course, that's just my opinion.
the market will tell in the end.


Best TL/DR write up I've ever seen. Kudos to you.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-04-21 20:11:44 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Two points:

1) CCP has zero control over in game plex prices.

yea. CCP had never used PLEXes from banned accounts to stabilize market.
yea. CCP cannot just spam PLEX and/or ISK if they want to affect market



I;m sure the 100 plex' reward is this. However, you have to ask yourself why would ccp want to lower plex prices at this time?

you said CCP has zero control.... and i gave you examples how they can do this. That's all.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Solecist Project
#50 - 2014-04-21 22:00:19 UTC
10 last posts in a row on the front page!


Thank you!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Winchester Steele
#51 - 2014-04-22 00:24:44 UTC
Saw EN24 being cited in the first sentence of the OP and stopped reading right there.

Gas thread, ban OP.

...

Winchester Steele
#52 - 2014-04-22 00:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Winchester Steele
BrundleMeth wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
CCP's responsibility is towards its shareholders first and those shareholders care about revenue.

I partnered in a startup that has now grown into a successful business and can absolutely say that this focus on revenue first is not the reason to start or run a business.

It's an important part of remaining in business, but not the reason to run a business.

Running a business is about solving problems, offering worthwhile products and services, creating something great, meeting a need.

When we started a few years ago, revenue was a distant light that we figured we'd eventually reach, but was never the focus of what we did. These days I'm hands-off to prevent a conflict of interest, but as a shareholder in the company, the focus is still very much on quality products and service and solving the problems other people have.

Revenue, yeah it's good to have it, but certainly not the highest priority.

I don't think CCP is all that different (though larger than what our company is). The top management should be thinking strategically, with the financial health of the company being important.

But below that, I would almost bet my left one that the bulk of the organisation is more focused on delivering a good product.

As a result, customers are just as important as shareholders, just in a different way.

Wow....

That is just not how it is. Business talks like thats how it it, but customers are nothing more than the means to an end. And employees? They are an expendable resource that is a necessary evil but nothing more. To be disposed of on a moments notice when the bottom line is threatened. I have seen it with my own eyes on several occassions.

The people who tell you "Our employees are our greatest asset" are nothing more than pure unadulterated liars. I am losing my job at the end of this year along with 100 others . From a company that had 20 Billion in revenue last year. This is the 4th time this has happened to me. Revenue is all that matters, nothing else...



Do you work in communist China or something? My company treats me and my entire family like royalty. The only people who get treated better than the employees are the customers. And I work for one of the largest communications firms in my country.

Just because some companies treat their employees and customers like **** doesn't mean they all do, or that it is a common practice.

Edit: my apologies. Read the last part of your post. Condolences on the loss of job. There are however, lots of great employers/companies out there. (Perspective: been with my current employer for over 15 years now.)

...

Trinity Griffin
Clann Fian
#53 - 2014-04-22 07:56:17 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
CCP's responsibility is towards its shareholders first and those shareholders care about revenue.

I partnered in a startup that has now grown into a successful business and can absolutely say that this focus on revenue first is not the reason to start or run a business.

It's an important part of remaining in business, but not the reason to run a business.

Running a business is about solving problems, offering worthwhile products and services, creating something great, meeting a need.

When we started a few years ago, revenue was a distant light that we figured we'd eventually reach, but was never the focus of what we did. These days I'm hands-off to prevent a conflict of interest, but as a shareholder in the company, the focus is still very much on quality products and service and solving the problems other people have.

Revenue, yeah it's good to have it, but certainly not the highest priority.

I don't think CCP is all that different (though larger than what our company is). The top management should be thinking strategically, with the financial health of the company being important.

But below that, I would almost bet my left one that the bulk of the organisation is more focused on delivering a good product.

As a result, customers are just as important as shareholders, just in a different way.

Wow....

That is just not how it is. Business talks like thats how it it, but customers are nothing more than the means to an end. And employees? They are an expendable resource that is a necessary evil but nothing more. To be disposed of on a moments notice when the bottom line is threatened. I have seen it with my own eyes on several occassions.

The people who tell you "Our employees are our greatest asset" are nothing more than pure unadulterated liars. I am losing my job at the end of this year along with 100 others . From a company that had 20 Billion in revenue last year. This is the 4th time this has happened to me. Revenue is all that matters, nothing else...



Do you work in communist China or something? My company treats me and my entire family like royalty. The only people who get treated better than the employees are the customers. And I work for one of the largest communications firms in my country.

Just because some companies treat their employees and customers like **** doesn't mean they all do, or that it is a common practice.

Edit: my apologies. Read the last part of your post. Condolences on the loss of job. There are however, lots of great employers/companies out there. (Perspective: been with my current employer for over 15 years now.)

Like royalty? What do you do for a living? 'cause reality is, not may emplotees get treated like royalty, the population majority (anywhere in the world) that's stuck in a job that no one else wants to do, are expendable, it's all about the bottom line. Sure, the company portrays treating it's employees just as well as it's customers, but when the bottom line is being threatened, the employees are the first to cop it.
Enjoy the royal treatment while your company is doing well. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#54 - 2014-04-22 07:59:31 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:

Do you work in communist China or something?


I wish, Id be paid a decent wage, and the ******* busses would run properly, not pretend there is such a thing as EASTER ******* TUESDAY

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Capsuler Rhea
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2014-04-27 10:15:20 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Regarding the servers, despite the overload in Jita and during fleet battles I'm pretty sure its nowhere near max capacity.


Empire has has been smoking, according to one of the dev blogs a while back. While nullsec and lowsec might not be overloaded, Empire most certainly is.



That' CCP's fault primarily, they created a nulsec world where huge alliances can't be harassed easily by small bands. due to the range of jump bridges, huge swats of nulsec are empty, aside from maybe renters, and virtually more safe than highsec. The only way fresh pilots can survive into creating their new corps is to know someone connected with existing corps, or be part of an existing alliance, or just linger in obscurity and hopefully no one notices you or your corp.

Now, CCP is proposing to further limit the productivity in highsec, which to me only means that it will be harder for new people, and i mean legitimately new people to form up and hopefully challenge the existing hierarchy of nul, ensuring the safe existence of current alliances from any form of potential challenges in the future. Eve is a harsh world, CCP should not babysit these existing huge alliances further, if they want huge swat of systems to control, let them work for it, let them guard such systems 23.5/7, that will definitely stir up activity in null... Blink
Meiyang Lee
Game Instrument Applications
#56 - 2014-04-27 14:18:52 UTC
El 1974 wrote:

CCP's responsibility is towards its shareholders first and those shareholders care about revenue.


There's one slight issue with this line, CCP is a privately held company, and not a public one.
As such, they have no shareholders, they are only beholden to themselves and nobody else.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#57 - 2014-04-27 14:22:25 UTC
Capsuler Rhea wrote:
huge swats of nulsec are empty, aside from maybe renters, and virtually more safe than highsec. The only way fresh pilots can survive into creating their new corps is to know someone connected with existing corps, or be part of an existing alliance, or just linger in obscurity and hopefully no one notices you or your corp.


Capsuler Rhea wrote:
aside from maybe renters



http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090429125933/americandad/images/f/f6/Sergei.jpg


(I couldnt find the picture I was looking for to illustrate my point, so heres Sergei)

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2014-04-27 14:25:48 UTC
Meiyang Lee wrote:
El 1974 wrote:

CCP's responsibility is towards its shareholders first and those shareholders care about revenue.

There's one slight issue with this line, CCP is a privately held company, and not a public one.
As such, they have no shareholders, they are only beholden to themselves and nobody else.

Again, just because they are not publicly traded does not mean they don't have shareholders.
Meiyang Lee
Game Instrument Applications
#59 - 2014-04-27 14:36:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Meiyang Lee wrote:
El 1974 wrote:

CCP's responsibility is towards its shareholders first and those shareholders care about revenue.

There's one slight issue with this line, CCP is a privately held company, and not a public one.
As such, they have no shareholders, they are only beholden to themselves and nobody else.

Again, just because they are not publicly traded does not mean they don't have shareholders.


Stakeholders, yes, Shareholders, no. Similar result, but very different concepts.
By its very definition a privately held company does not have shareholders as they can not have shares, that's kind of the point.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#60 - 2014-04-27 14:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Meiyang Lee wrote:
Stakeholders, yes, Shareholders, no. Similar result, but very different concepts.
By its very definition a privately held company does not have shareholders as they can not have shares, that's kind of the point.

They can have shareholders just fine. It is just a representation of ownership in a company and can come in any number of forms. Publicly traded stock and derivatives are just a couple of them, and being a public company mainly just alters exactly where and how shares can be traded.

Oh, and according to this, they're a public LLC, since the company name is CCP hf.