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New form of wardec: VENDETTA
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Subject 4927
DPS INC
Kenshin Shogunate.
#41 - 2014-04-17 15:59:05 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
My obligatory chiming in with fixes to existing war mechanics...

- Increase NPC corp taxes to 50%, as incentive for players to join & remain in player (deccable) corps. Incentive, NOT force mind you. You can hide out there forever like a pansy if you insist, but it should cost hella more for that privilege than does today.

Wars should mean something when they happen, and the existing exploit allowing their ducking on a whim closed. Today wars are actually already 100% consensual because pansies can just drop corp, without even paying a premium or delay.




You still don't get it do you?


I personally don't understand people trying to change highsec and wars. If you wardec a mining corp and they drop to an NPC because 1. They don't know how to pvp 2. Are scared 3. Want to undock. Then who's the complaining child? Do you want to pvp? Wardec a real corp, go to lowsec etc. Sending a war to people who just mine all day comes at a risk. If you can't throw around 50mil worth of isk then please find another hobby.

/scene

http://subjectandfriends.wordpress.com
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#42 - 2014-04-17 15:59:51 UTC
To balance the OP idea, you may want to add a little line :
- During the vendetta, if the agressor (the one that started the vendetta) is attacking the target, he goes immediately suspect.

So people inside corporations can still be defended by friends. Or a lone freighter in Niarja can hope that Marmitte will save his as-- bottom.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

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Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2014-04-17 16:05:44 UTC
As others have said, right now Wardecs are dropped because there is generally no reason for the defenders to fight over anything, probably because most wardecs are issued as an attempt to farm kills rather than resolve a conflict. Why do you expect other people to offer themselves up as content for you, and how do you even expect hisec to function if NPC Corps are unlivable and anyone can buy an inescapable week-long "slaughter miners" permit whenever they want for no reason?

Killing people is great and you should do it all the time, but the wardec mechanic isn't some divine mandate for hapless hisec PvE corps to let you farm them.


If you really want to kill miners for no reason, take that wardec fee and use it to fit out a stack of Catalysts.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-04-17 17:07:21 UTC
Jake Patton wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
If a player drops corp during nay wardec, they would have a vendetta for the remaining period of the dec.
This would turn into a management nightmare. For instance, imagine you dec a small corp and this corp joins a large alliance. From that point on, every member that drops from any corp in that alliance will create a new Vendetta. And when that player joins another corp, a new wardec is created. If the alliance is big enough, the amount of new wars / Vendettas being created will be ridiculously high.

Also, if this works both ways, I can see it being abused for dec sharing. Example, if Alliance A decs Alliance B, players in those alliances can transfer the war to any other entity of their choosing.
If it works like that I can see people getting free wars with, for instance, the Goons by exploiting their war with Marmite/Lemmings.

Very soon everyone will be at war with everyone.

Yeah, just trying to brainstorm on how to make such a mechanic manageable. I've never understood why a war dec should be transfered upwards when joining an alliance. Make the corp deal with it themselves, but when it comes time to renew the agressor should have ot pay to dec the full alliance. Vendettas could do the same thing. If they join a corp while under active vendetta, it would not be transferred into a full blown war, but the aggressor would have to pay a (higher) cost to dec the full corp when the vendetta runs out.

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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-04-17 18:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Subject 4927 wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
My obligatory chiming in with fixes to existing war mechanics...

- Increase NPC corp taxes to 50%, as incentive for players to join & remain in player (deccable) corps. Incentive, NOT force mind you. You can hide out there forever like a pansy if you insist, but it should cost hella more for that privilege than does today.

Wars should mean something when they happen, and the existing exploit allowing their ducking on a whim closed. Today wars are actually already 100% consensual because pansies can just drop corp, without even paying a premium or delay.

You still don't get it do you?

I personally don't understand people trying to change highsec and wars. If you wardec a mining corp and they drop to an NPC because 1. They don't know how to pvp 2. Are scared 3. Want to undock. Then who's the complaining child? Do you want to pvp? Wardec a real corp, go to lowsec etc. Sending a war to people who just mine all day comes at a risk. If you can't throw around 50mil worth of isk then please find another hobby.

/scene

The point is if a wardec mechanic is going to exist at all, it should be meaningful. Being able to duck it makes it irrelevant and a broken mechanic. Wars should mean things, today they don't. My ideas tried to address that.

Also, I would say this about any game mechanic that is broken, like 'bounties' for example....

Would you like to know more?
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2014-04-17 19:33:11 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Subject 4927 wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
My obligatory chiming in with fixes to existing war mechanics...

- Increase NPC corp taxes to 50%, as incentive for players to join & remain in player (deccable) corps. Incentive, NOT force mind you. You can hide out there forever like a pansy if you insist, but it should cost hella more for that privilege than does today.

Wars should mean something when they happen, and the existing exploit allowing their ducking on a whim closed. Today wars are actually already 100% consensual because pansies can just drop corp, without even paying a premium or delay.

You still don't get it do you?

I personally don't understand people trying to change highsec and wars. If you wardec a mining corp and they drop to an NPC because 1. They don't know how to pvp 2. Are scared 3. Want to undock. Then who's the complaining child? Do you want to pvp? Wardec a real corp, go to lowsec etc. Sending a war to people who just mine all day comes at a risk. If you can't throw around 50mil worth of isk then please find another hobby.

/scene

The point is if a wardec mechanic is going to exist at all, it should be meaningful. Being able to duck it makes it irrelevant and a broken mechanic. Wars should mean things, today they don't. My ideas tried to address that.

Also, I would say this about any game mechanic that is broken, like 'bounties' for example....


You can't assign meaning and power to something that can be done by anyone to anyone else at any time for no reason.
Istyn
Freight Club
#47 - 2014-04-17 23:04:46 UTC
As someone that has sat and watched jump freighters fly past me after dropping corp... I'm not really convinced corp dropping is that much of a problem. There's the current 7 day/duration of dec stasis period that is an improvement over the previous non-existant punishment mechanic, but, frankly, certain targets are more likely to drop corps than others.

People generally only drop if the corp means nothing other than a chatroom, and those are typically tiny mining outfits or the like. You can't make a war against a meaningless corp meaningful no matter how hard you try, and they will continue to drop no matter what.

If you pick your targets well, you'll fairly rarely experience corp dropping in my experience (albeit, ~2 years ago) - the first step is not dogpiling a 10 man corp with 60 guys and then yelling 'WHY AREN'T YOU UNDOCKING?' at them.
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2014-04-18 00:12:59 UTC
I should clarify, just in case it wasn't obvious, that I am 100% in the "Death to Carebears" camp. It's just that complaining about people dropping corp to avoid random wardecs is like bitching at miners for flying Skiffs or mission runners for warping out when your Tornados show up on dscan.

If people are willing to take steps to protect themselves, why shouldn't they be rewarded?
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#49 - 2014-04-18 00:39:48 UTC
Nobody should be immune to violence or war. That said, I've always wanted this type of thing for bounty hunting, not necessarily a 1v1 war.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#50 - 2014-04-18 07:11:10 UTC
Cavalira wrote:
Why don't you just move to low/nullsec?

Shush, he doesn't want to go against people who want to fight back for heavens sake!

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-04-18 10:59:51 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:


The point is if a wardec mechanic is going to exist at all, it should be meaningful. Being able to duck it makes it irrelevant and a broken mechanic. Wars should mean things, today they don't. My ideas tried to address that.

Also, I would say this about any game mechanic that is broken, like 'bounties' for example....


Like passing around wardecs on random passerby in a barge or industrial doesn't also make it meaningless.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Subject 4927
DPS INC
Kenshin Shogunate.
#52 - 2014-04-18 15:42:51 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Subject 4927 wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
My obligatory chiming in with fixes to existing war mechanics...

- Increase NPC corp taxes to 50%, as incentive for players to join & remain in player (deccable) corps. Incentive, NOT force mind you. You can hide out there forever like a pansy if you insist, but it should cost hella more for that privilege than does today.

Wars should mean something when they happen, and the existing exploit allowing their ducking on a whim closed. Today wars are actually already 100% consensual because pansies can just drop corp, without even paying a premium or delay.

You still don't get it do you?

I personally don't understand people trying to change highsec and wars. If you wardec a mining corp and they drop to an NPC because 1. They don't know how to pvp 2. Are scared 3. Want to undock. Then who's the complaining child? Do you want to pvp? Wardec a real corp, go to lowsec etc. Sending a war to people who just mine all day comes at a risk. If you can't throw around 50mil worth of isk then please find another hobby.

/scene

The point is if a wardec mechanic is going to exist at all, it should be meaningful. Being able to duck it makes it irrelevant and a broken mechanic. Wars should mean things, today they don't. My ideas tried to address that.

Also, I would say this about any game mechanic that is broken, like 'bounties' for example....


Right, We all understand that their's a butt load of broken in-game mechanics. That being acknowledged you have to look at both sides of the argument so you can make a educated and unbiased opinion worth writing down. Like Istyn said it's all in the homework, pick your targets correctly.

If they can't fight back or don't know how, should CCP make it so they're fish in a barrel? No. When they drop corp you can buy a few cats and gank his barge if need be. Putting more rules and chains on bears is going to break the game.

http://subjectandfriends.wordpress.com
Dalto Bane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-04-18 16:26:14 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
So, I was remembering the days when dropping corp to avoid wardecs was considered an exploit.

Ah, memories.

As most of the posters in C&P are aware, it's easy.....too easy....to avoid wardecs.

Not to mention the outright silliness of being immune from hisec wardecs by staying in an NPC corp.

So...I began drinking heavily, and then it came to me in a flash.

What if you could wardec individuals, regardless of what corp they are in?

A new form of wardec, called Vendetta?

Proposal: Anyone can 'Declare a vendetta' vs anyone else for 50 million ISK per week. Both parties in a Vendetta can attack each other anywhere in hisec. Their corpmates (if any) are NOT included in the Vendetta. Dropping/joining corps does NOT shed a Vendetta.

This would include players in NPC corps.

This would be in addition to normal wardecs. IE, someone wardecs my corp, I drop corp, they can't attack me (without getting CONCORDed anyway). If someone also declared a Vendetta against me, that person could attack me (and vice versa) regardless of my corp status.

CAVEAT: Trial accounts cannot declare a Vendetta nor can they be Vendetta'd.

IMO this would add a further element of risk to hisec, and help deal with the whole wardec avoidance exploit (and yes IMO its an exploit).

End of proposal.


*turns on hardeners and gets thermal resist to 99%*


Great minds think alike...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4465517#post4465517

Drops Mic
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-04-18 17:56:06 UTC
The problem is other than the NPC tax rate, there is no reason to be in a hisec corp at least for most corps. The POCO changes and now the POS/Industry changes are I think working towards changing that. Corporations should have some reason for being, and something worth defending, to exist at all.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
gaijiin pok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-04-19 23:08:39 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
Make your vendetta be the penalty for dropping corp during a wardec. You leave corp you are stuck in a vendetta for 7 days with the aggressors corp.

Just a thought.



a damn fine thought!! my previous corp went through a ton of effort in our research of a griefer corporation *(never mind that we fit the same discription) Pirate that was bullying a friendly mining/industry corporation who were in the habit of making nice toys for us to play with - our wardec went live and after the first skirmish the rat bastards bailed like rats on a sinking ship - even the ceo jumped to npc closing the corp.

lots of work for such an easy dodge Ugh

have a like for such an awesome idea!

now... go run for csm! you would get my vote
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-04-20 08:36:38 UTC
Except dropping corp to avoid a wardec was never against the rules. Having your corporation join an alliance only to immediately leave in order to shed war decs was.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-04-20 09:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Mike Adoulin wrote:
A new form of wardec, called Vendetta?

Proposal: Anyone can 'Declare a vendetta' vs anyone else for 50 million ISK per week. Both parties in a Vendetta can attack each other anywhere in hisec. Their corpmates (if any) are NOT included in the Vendetta. Dropping/joining corps does NOT shed a Vendett


Vendetta would imply that the person activating it has been wronged against (blood feud etc).

You should change the name to "murderous rampage" as your name tries to look all justified and ****.

Or just name it "blood feud" and extend it from the kill right system.

Edit: if you want to just shoot them, go do it?
Dsparil Mal
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2014-04-20 12:49:50 UTC
I think vendetta would be a great balance to the retribution changes to killrights. It'll make griefing high sec fun again.

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!
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