Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The issue is that for both the Gila and the Rattlesnake in different ways, the drone weapon system is exactly that, an entire system with many checks and balances, plusses and minuses.-It has serious issues, and at some point will need a major rework.- but that is an aside.

Range of control and the fact that drones come in different sizes and abilities, and that these can be switched according to threat, are the pillars that support the system as a weapons platform.

The problem is the 2 main pillars have been disregarded whilst focusing on the new superdrone concept.
The superdrone concept has great potential to be a great addition to the game. But only if the smaller drones beneath the Superdrones are taken into account in the whole interplay of the system. And the battle-space these drones operate in and the control range applicable relates to the drones abilities.

But if you completely remove functionality and abilities of core components of the whole system, the balance is broken, and it will be impossible to know just how good they are,as one will be making continual comparisons with the other missing and changed elements.how can one compare the Gila and its use of wonderful bonused superdrones if you are struggling with losing 3.5 effective light drones and fighting to somehow stay alive.
When you change a core variable, you change only one at a time, or the data is meaningless.
This is over and above the more direct impacts that have been detailed en mass over dozens of pages, i know there is a lot to read but that is better than me typing pages for you now.

Aside from that the resolutions are remarkably simple.
The forum thread is so long because as in the case where one sees a nail on the floor, one can either pick it up and solve the problem, or argue incessantly for hours as to why it is not a problem and why it is too much effort to pick it up.

Until someone steps on it.

I am going to go through this thread and like every single post Alvatore DiMarco has written. Just because I can. I may also completely agree with him but that's only for me to know

A-*******-Men (this means I approve of this product and or service)

Wrong. You must be an total fuking r3tard to think a 175 drone bay down from 400 gives and the loss of missile velocity gives more flexibility.

The number of people unhappy with what is being done to the Guristas was what convinced these callous devs to reluctantly give us our sentry drones back and make an absoloutly terrible idea just plain bad.

How does CCP think it is okay to **** all over their customers who have been trained into these skill intensive battleships for years? We picked them because we like what they do. We don't need you to make them "new and exciting".

Do the right thing and don't **** all over Guristas pilots and yourselves. All that Guristas need is extra high/mid/lows.

Create new ships if you want to make gimped drone boats that lose 50% of their drone DPS whenever a drone has to be pulled back or gets webbed.

I understand your theoretical or philosophical problem with the new Rattlesnake, but what is the actual in game, on TQ, issue? What efficient role can the new Rattlesnake not fill? I have been killing elite frigates (PVE) with unbonused light drones for years... Or blapping them out of existence with sentries/turrets long before they get that close.

Is your problem that the new Rattlesnake is a split weapon system? And you therefore cannot just choose to bonus the heck out of one system (e.g. 3x DDA, 3x Omni, 3x DLA)? Because if that is your issue, you are being narrow-minded. I can fit the new ship to perform a couple of different roles very well, in both PVP and PVE. It just isn't the best pure missile or drone boat, because it isn't a pure missile or drone boat.

With any rebalance, there are naturally choices to make.
For example the rattlesnake has 6 lows, so I will make the choice to balance the damage around the most effective system, and as sentries have become suboptimal and a pain to use in the 85-105 km band, I will of course now lose the Lmjd, this frees up space for an afterburner, ah but no cap to use it, never mind I will put a PDU in the lows, ah none free, and the shield power relays will have to go, hmmm no passive recharge tank any more, pity it was the best feature, never mind change and adapt, oh no point having 3* T2 rigs to support a passive recharge tank now, I will throw them away, hmmm omnidirectionals were nerfed recently, best ignore the drones if I want any sort of tank and go full missile,
Hmmmm

Navy scorpion does it better, I'll sell it in Jita.

Is that the change and adapt you had in mind?
One possible fit and one possible chain of thought, lots of fits, lots of choices, and lots of decision trees. The problem is all rattlesnake users are making the same judgement examination, some will keep it some will not. Some will come to one conclusion some the other.

Hardly how you go about making it more popular though.

I really don't get this entire discussion. If you need drone range on the Rattlesnake for sniping, drop a launcher for a DLA (you're still ahead +50% damage with the missiles anyway). If there's a concern about missile range for sniping, 3 hydraulic rigs will more than compensate for the loss of missile velocity (although cruise missiles still have 148km so this may be a moot point). And as for the loss to light and medium drone bonuses, this is what ever other non drone-bonused battleship already deals with so I don't see how this puts the Rattlesnake at a disadvantage. In fact, the Rattlesnake will be the only battleship to receive bonuses to light, medium and heavy weapons.

The only thing I'm not keen on is that with 5 launchers turret symmetry is going to look godawful.

You can passive tank the Snake, But it gimps it JUST as much as it used to. and PVP if you really wanted you could Dual XLASB fit it. Other ships in eve need to sacrifice Something for certain fits. Why should the rattlesnake Not have to sacrifice.
With the drone Changes, The snake will be dealing 6% less drone dps. But almost Double the missile DPS. The fit will still work fine.

If you make the Rattlesnake sacrifice, then something or other about twisted, horrific, stunted trees and totalitarian governments of people wearing grey clothes. At least, that's what he said before.

Hi Arthur, the issue is that in creating the superdrones, they have neglected to take account on the effects of the changes to the whole overall drone weapons system, there is no issue with missile range, the Gila suffers from the loss of 3.5 effective drones, and with the other effects, sentries on the rattlesnake become a medium range weapon, absolute drone control maximum range is reduced to 80-85km. As you know LMJD range is 100km so wait, wait, wait to use your drones, a pain in the ass, not entertaining game play.

I believe this is an oversight, others wish to troll me incessantly for pointing it out, i think they believe that if they swamp the thread enough CCP will not see it. Possibly they are against the superdrone concept and want it to slip through, and fail in a bloody ragestorm.

Drones are a complex weapons system, with effects playing out in interesting ways. Chopping off the 2 legs of drone control range and smaller drones than the primary weapon, has significant consequences.
I must declare I love the idea of moving to Superdrones, and as a testbed the guristas ships are a good platform to test it on.

If i do not point it out now, and the comparatively small number of guristas ships don't register on their radar when having issues, imagine the shitstorm when the dominix and ishtar change to it.

The Rattlesnake as it is now will be a good ship, people telling users who actually use them, to change all their fits only results in a crappy fit that will be exceeded by other ships. Negating the values that the ship has.

The theory that the rattlesnake will suddenly be fitted with rapid light missile launchers is amusing, and not really practical, but it seems for the Gila that that will be the only possible sane fit, if the user does not have access to T2 precision missiles, similar but less critical on the rattlesnake, T2 missiles strongly recommended now.

Not a problem if you have them, but I am trying to consider others too here.

The simplest of fixes will fix this, i discussed an analogy of a nail on the floor earlier, instead of arguing if it should be picked up and why it is there, it is better to point it out and make sure it is picked up before someone stands on it!