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NERF Hisec?

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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#281 - 2014-04-18 22:14:53 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

No, inflation is in fact the right concept, because people are still missioning like mad - with nothing to spend their money on. Minerals would just be . . . useless.


If they're missioning like mad, they're burning through ammo, cap boosters, and likely drones. So, minerals are not 'useless', and there would still be a market going on (since lasers suck hard for missions, even though they're very cost effective) Remember that not all mineral consumption comes from PvP ship building.

What you'd end up seeing is a market a lot like eve had many years ago when the T2 lottery was still going on and eve had 15k players. Scout, modulated etc went for premium prices, since T2 was for most intents and purposes out of the average players reach. PvP was not AS big as it is today, and people were far more cautious about losing ships then than they are now. Goons were the first group to really disregard casualties, because their MO was to swarm the target in cheap frigs and noob ships. (Ah, the good old days, when goons were liked and Curse and BoB were hated).

Back then you were more likely to lose a ship to CCP than PvP. Some of the bugs and screw ups were truly spectacular. I still remember the one that turning on an active tank made you lag out, usually resulting in a ship loss. Petitions being dealt with swiftly, sometimes within the hour, and CCP being willing to refund said ship, rather than claim that the logs show nothing.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#282 - 2014-04-18 22:48:57 UTC
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
We have this already, BlueSec.

The shuttle we killed tonight that dropped a nagilfar BPO (researched) tells me that they only think they are safe in bluesec Pirate

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Dalto Bane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#283 - 2014-04-18 22:56:32 UTC
To all the players in support of this "Ultra-Sec" idea. You all seem to keep coming back like the ones of us that are opposed to the idea like we have to give you a good reason why it should not be implemented in Eve, without giving us a good reason why it should.

In the current state of Eve Online, if you are in High Sec, properly tanked and positive standings, you can in fact fly in "relative" safety. This thread makes it seem as though all players are undocking and being insta-popped everywhere in HS for no apparent reason.

If you are that risk-adverse and pouty about current mechanics, then it would not suprise me that you feel the way you do, because my guess is that someone is probably hunting you down like a wounded duck and leaving a bloody smear where your hulk was last seen flying.

Drops Mic
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#284 - 2014-04-18 23:00:55 UTC
Dalto Bane wrote:
To all the players in support of this "Ultra-Sec" idea. You all seem to keep coming back like the ones of us that are opposed to the idea like we have to give you a good reason why it should not be implemented in Eve, without giving us a good reason why it should.

In the current state of Eve Online, if you are in High Sec, properly tanked and positive standings, you can in fact fly in "relative" safety. This thread makes it seem as though all players are undocking and being insta-popped everywhere in HS for no apparent reason.

If you are that risk-adverse and pouty about current mechanics, then it would not suprise me that you feel the way you do, because my guess is that someone is probably hunting you down like a wounded duck and leaving a bloody smear where your hulk was last seen flying.


Except for my posts though, mine are nothing like what you describe.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#285 - 2014-04-18 23:02:52 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:

Except for my posts though, mine are nothing like what you describe.


Big smile

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Tesco Ergo Sum
#286 - 2014-04-18 23:13:34 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:
We have this already, BlueSec.

The shuttle we killed tonight that dropped a nagilfar BPO (researched) tells me that they only think they are safe in bluesec Pirate


Didn't want that BPO anyways, already replaced, etc, etc

Their narrative is simultaneously self-supporting and self-deluding

Which raises an interesting point, is BlueSec "safe enough"?

The published narrative says no, hence the calls for nerfs to HighSec.

But evidence (as you've just exploded) points to the opposite.

Why, oh why would such large groups call for something that isn't necessary?
Dalto Bane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2014-04-18 23:18:06 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Dalto Bane wrote:
To all the players in support of this "Ultra-Sec" idea. You all seem to keep coming back like the ones of us that are opposed to the idea like we have to give you a good reason why it should not be implemented in Eve, without giving us a good reason why it should.

In the current state of Eve Online, if you are in High Sec, properly tanked and positive standings, you can in fact fly in "relative" safety. This thread makes it seem as though all players are undocking and being insta-popped everywhere in HS for no apparent reason.

If you are that risk-adverse and pouty about current mechanics, then it would not suprise me that you feel the way you do, because my guess is that someone is probably hunting you down like a wounded duck and leaving a bloody smear where your hulk was last seen flying.


Except for my posts though, mine are nothing like what you describe.


I know, you have got the "fairness" angle. Well, since we are talking about fair....

It is FAIR that all new pilots of Eve Online get the same experience and interaction that current pilots are getting, or have got. It is FAIR that this game keeps some level of difficulty so that if a player is met with an obstacle that test them, and they overcome it, then they are able to actually feel a sense of accomplishment and not complete numbness from the rinse, repeat cycle. FAIR is last but not least, allowing new pilots to learn from their mistakes early on, because an "Ultra-Sec" space would do nothing but isolate and handicap new players in such a way, that they miss the other 90% of the game, and when they do venture out in their Faction Fit Raven, they will be in for a rude awakening.

I am trying to save these people from themselves. This will kill Eve, and along with it, a little piece of me if this were to ever happen. Sad

Drops Mic
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
#288 - 2014-04-19 00:01:37 UTC
New players come into EVE and see the surface of Highsec and think that it's a safety zone. Which in turn results in anger, confusions, and frustration when an experienced and/or veteral player cleverly uses the loopholes of highsec to attack the new player who doesn't understand what's happening.

The main problem I see is that there simply isn't any PVE oriented Space ship MMO on the market currently that's worth a damn. So people log into EVE to give it a try. They REALLY want to play a PVE space-ship game, but there's only one real option, and it turns out to not be what they actually want. And, of course, when they finally realize that it's not, they get all kinds of bent about it.

I do personally think that some of the shenanigans that go on in Highsec are a little extreme, even given the PVP nature of EVE. But I also think that any sort of protection created for new, or carebear, players would be utterly and ruthlessly exploited for profit by experienced pilots.

People just need to realize more quickly the type of game EVE is, and the type of players that it attracts. Hopefully once Star Citizen or something else goes live, people will actually have the option to play the type of game they want, instead of trying to force EVE to be something that it isn't.



"What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."  - Usagi Yojimbo
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#289 - 2014-04-19 00:08:08 UTC
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:

The main problem I see is that there simply isn't any PVE oriented Space ship MMO on the market currently that's worth a damn.



Is there any PvE oriented MMO, period, that is worth a damn? I'm serious.

The problem is that poor player education leads to unreasonable expectations being dashed. That's it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#290 - 2014-04-19 00:11:43 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:

The main problem I see is that there simply isn't any PVE oriented Space ship MMO on the market currently that's worth a damn.



Is there any PvE oriented MMO, period, that is worth a damn? I'm serious.

The problem is that poor player education leads to unreasonable expectations being dashed. That's it.


EvE is a PvE MMO and it's worth a damn.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#291 - 2014-04-19 00:14:06 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:

The main problem I see is that there simply isn't any PVE oriented Space ship MMO on the market currently that's worth a damn.



Is there any PvE oriented MMO, period, that is worth a damn? I'm serious.

The problem is that poor player education leads to unreasonable expectations being dashed. That's it.


EvE is a PvE MMO and it's worth a damn.


EVE is not about PvE, it never was, and it never will be.

If you think otherwise then you're playing the wrong game. Star Trek Online is ------> that way.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#292 - 2014-04-19 00:15:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:
instead of trying to force EVE to be something that it isn't.


Put 9 EvE players in a room and ask them what EvE is, and you'll get ten different answers.

From my own perspective, EvE is an interesting simulation of how people behave when you combine anonymity and a dog eat dog environment. Like DayZ but with space ships. It stands as proof what scum most people actually would be if they thought they could get away with it.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

EVE is not about PvE, it never was, and it never will be.


I just have to correct this: Actually it always has been. Where do you think all that isk comes from? PvE is actually the source or pretty much all isk in game. You can get it off people by various means, but at the end of the day, it all started from someone doing missions or ratting.

Without it, there would be no PvP. Remember in the very old days how most pirates would ransom rather than fight? There was a reason for that.
Salvos Rhoska
#293 - 2014-04-19 00:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
No.

But something could be done to incubate new players a bit more till they are ready for the plunge.
The learning curve is no joke, and some people need a little more guidance and longer to come to grips.
Its no skin off anyone elses nose if they can have a bit of insulation, especially while still running the tutorials.

I dont mean for high sec overall, I mean specifically in the rookie systems.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#294 - 2014-04-19 00:22:51 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:
instead of trying to force EVE to be something that it isn't.


Put 9 EvE players in a room and ask them what EvE is, and you'll get ten different answers.

From my own perspective, EvE is an interesting simulation of how people behave when you combine anonymity and a dog eat dog environment. Like DayZ but with space ships. It stands as proof what scum most people actually would be if they thought they could get away with it.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

EVE is not about PvE, it never was, and it never will be.


I just have to correct this: Actually it always has been. Where do you think all that isk comes from? PvE is actually the source or pretty much all isk in game. You can get it off people by various means, but at the end of the day, it all started from someone doing missions or ratting.

Without it, there would be no PvP. Remember in the very old days how most pirates would ransom rather than fight? There was a reason for that.


"People who are bad in video games are bad in real life." Hmm now where have I seen that reasoning before?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#295 - 2014-04-19 00:26:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:

The main problem I see is that there simply isn't any PVE oriented Space ship MMO on the market currently that's worth a damn.



Is there any PvE oriented MMO, period, that is worth a damn? I'm serious.

The problem is that poor player education leads to unreasonable expectations being dashed. That's it.


EvE is a PvE MMO and it's worth a damn.


EVE is not about PvE, it never was, and it never will be.

If you think otherwise then you're playing the wrong game. Star Trek Online is ------> that way.


That is your opinion. If EvE were meant to not have PvE, it wouldn't have PvE. It might not be about PvE to you, but it could very well be about PvE for some people. Your opinions aren't what dictates reality.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#296 - 2014-04-19 00:27:05 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

I just have to correct this: Actually it always has been. Where do you think all that isk comes from? PvE is actually the source or pretty much all isk in game. You can get it off people by various means, but at the end of the day, it all started from someone doing missions or ratting.

Without it, there would be no PvP. Remember in the very old days how most pirates would ransom rather than fight? There was a reason for that.


Lol, and the "If it weren't for carebears you wouldn't have ships to fly" defense again.

Sorry to tell you this, but that's not true, either. People running the rat wheel trying to make the green numbers get bigger are irrelevant to how any real player goes about this game. They contribute nothing, they're more like... scenery, than actual players.

That's the wonderful thing about capitalism. If enough people quit because they feel they aren't being appreciated or whatever Dr. Phil crap the miners are saying these days, then people notice the void, and the market steps in to fill the gap.

It's like with the PLEX thing. The higher prices make it more attractive to purchase PLEX and sell them on the market, which in turn drives down the price, which increases demand, which increases the price, and so forth.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#297 - 2014-04-19 00:33:29 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:

The main problem I see is that there simply isn't any PVE oriented Space ship MMO on the market currently that's worth a damn.



Is there any PvE oriented MMO, period, that is worth a damn? I'm serious.

The problem is that poor player education leads to unreasonable expectations being dashed. That's it.


EvE is a PvE MMO and it's worth a damn.


EVE is not about PvE, it never was, and it never will be.

If you think otherwise then you're playing the wrong game. Star Trek Online is ------> that way.


That is your opinion. If EvE were meant to not have PvE, it wouldn't have PvE. It might not be about PvE to you, but it could very well be about PvE for some people. Your opinions aren't what dictates reality.



I'm a pve player (right this moment I'm shooting Sanshas in a mission) and even I know EVE is a pvp game.

PVE in EVE is a tool used for various reasons (to ake isk to do other things, to have fun, to build standings or gain materials to build other in game items) where as PVP (not just spaceship pvp but all kinds of conflcit interacitons) is the underlying purpose of the game.

The key people who created EVE Online were Ultima Online PVPrs, and they made a PVP centric game. You are probably to new to understand that, but if you'd ask questions more and opine less you might learn something.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#298 - 2014-04-19 00:36:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
No.

But something could be done to incubate new players a bit more till they are ready for the plunge.
The learning curve is no joke, and some people need a little more guidance and longer to come to grips.
Its no skin off anyone elses nose if they can have a bit of insulation, especially while still running the tutorials.

I dont mean for high sec overall, I mean specifically in the rookie systems.


You know what would help new players? Nerfing highsec, restricting NPC corp members to new citizens and character trading forums, and rewarding corporations that have a large focus on helping out new players. Sort of like BRAVE used to do before they got corrupted by test.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#299 - 2014-04-19 00:40:12 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
No.

But something could be done to incubate new players a bit more till they are ready for the plunge.
The learning curve is no joke, and some people need a little more guidance and longer to come to grips.
Its no skin off anyone elses nose if they can have a bit of insulation, especially while still running the tutorials.

I dont mean for high sec overall, I mean specifically in the rookie systems.


You know what would help new players? Nerfing highsec, restricting NPC corp members to new citizens and character trading forums, and rewarding corporations that have a large focus on helping out new players. Sort of like BRAVE used to do before they got corrupted by test.


I love how "insulate" is the new buzzword to try and get around asking for newbies to be bubble wrapped.

Get the hint, carebear apologists. Bubble wrapping new players just makes the inevitable fall harder. You are all asking to functionally HURT new players just to further your agenda towards perfect safety and themepark gameplay. It's so selfish it's sickening.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#300 - 2014-04-19 00:40:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


I'm a pve player (right this moment I'm shooting Sanshas in a mission) and even I know EVE is a pvp game.

PVE in EVE is a tool used for various reasons (to ake isk to do other things, to have fun, to build standings or gain materials to build other in game items) where as PVP (not just spaceship pvp but all kinds of conflcit interacitons) is the underlying purpose of the game.

The key people who created EVE Online were Ultima Online PVPrs, and they made a PVP centric game. You are probably to new to understand that, but if you'd ask questions more and opine less you might learn something.


EvE is a game with PvP, yes. It's also a game with PvE, making it a PvE game. It's a PvE game, It's a PvP game, and it's many other games as well. That's one of the things that makes EvE "worth a damn". Is the potential appeal for a wide array of people.