EVE General Discussion

Oh I get it... You complainers are just mad because you don't PvP!

Solo carebears in Cranes snagging PI from low sec wasn't giving pirates anything to shoot at. And if you were doing PI and NOT in a Blockade Runner you are doing it wrong and not serious about low sec PI in the first place.

So my alliance just shot at an Interbus CO last night. We had one Moros, two Geddons and a Raven and two Drakes with a Falcon on standby in case someone tried to gank a few of us. Our other BCs were one system over trying to bait since they didn't have enough T1 ammo around t shoot at the CO.

It took us just under one hour there is no reinforce timer on the Interbus ones you can pop them in one go.

So we put up our POCO and I set the timer to come out of reinforced mode during our primetime.

I spoke with the pirates that live in that system. They active when we aren't so I was worried they may gank try to shoot it when I'm not online. He said, "why would I? It will just come out of reinforced when you guys outnumber us. However, if someone else tries to gank it during OUR primetime that gives us targets to gank!"

I wasn't surprised. As someone who uses bait tactics to get people agrees us so we can shoot them with no sec hit, I am well versed in pirates way of thinking.

I cannot conceive of someone going to all the effort of destroying a POCO (which gains them literally nothing) without also being willing to set up their own.

This is not a nerf of any kind to lowsec PI. If anything it is a buff.

However, it IS a nerf to solo players doing PI alone, and without a corporation supporting them.

It is a multiplayer game.

Wait, I thought we wanted more peole in low sec, not less.

If you have a big organized group, you go to 0.0, not low sec.

If low sec is not hospitable to solo players willing to face some danger, and not worth bothering with for organized groups that could handle it in 0.0, what is its purpose, really?

I can see these new POCO's being useful to pirate corps and other corps that already dominate a low sec space. They won't provide any additional PVP mind you, just a potential alternate passive income stream. Knock down interbus POCO's, set up your own. Any people still doing PI in low sec will use yours and pay your tax rates. Absolutely no industrialists are going to come out to low sec to knock down a pirate POCO.

Somewhere POCO's would work VERY well is in high sec. Corps could go to war over placing them on popular/profitable planets, and they are much less likely to get knocked out by random wandering bored PvP'ers or have caps dropped on them.

I question how many people even do PI in low sec anyway. I've spent some time trying to find what look like good planets in caldari low sec and flying around the customs offices looking for industrials to gank.

I only saw one industrial in those systems, ever, and he was soon hiding cloaked up somewhere.

With that kind of (non) low sec PI participation, I question whether it would even be profitable to throw up low sec POCO's.

How long would it take to merely break even on your 100 million investment?

Pretty quickly actually. I had an Alt export from 5 planets the other day and paid about 3 million isk in taxes. This is going to be something for Industrial Corporations that live in Lowsec systems already, with Towers.

If you have 10 or 20 guys in a corp doing PI the taxes add up.

No, I meant the tax savings you get by giving yopur corp members 0%. A corp of modest size whose members do PI will see enough savings to make it worthwhile I believe.

I concur this does nothing for solo players. But I do not expect MMOs to cater to solo players. Solo activities in Eve include ratting and missions in hisec, station trading, etc. Production has usually been more group focused.

lol @ Mr negative who has been used to 0% taxation. Hisec rates are pretty high. Smart corporations and their members will be making a nice amount of Isk from this.

Don't forget to figure in the now inflated value of the PI products on the market now, which will continue to rise. You can't look at the lower cost of business in the past without also looking at the increase in the goods worth now.

If, hypothetically speaking, before the patch you:

Sold the goods for 10million on the market and paid 10k in taxes, you made 9, 990, 000 ISK.

After the patch you:

Can now sell the goods for 13 million and pay 3 million in taxes, you made 10 million ISK. (roughly the same).

After you put up your POCO:

You sell the goods for 13 million and pay 3 million in taxes (to your corp to pay for the POCO), you made 10million ISK.

After you pay off your POCO:

You sell the goods for 13 million and pay zero taxes, you made 13million ISK.


Now if you aren't a single man operation and have say 10 members, if each is paying 3million a week = 30mil per week towards paying off the POCO. It doesn't take long.


Hopefully that explains things a bit better than I did previously, but it's pretty basic.

I agree. PI is a business. In this case, the Hi/Lo sec PI farmer will be competing against pricing from well protected mega corps in Null sec. Except for some one-time capital equipment investments, the Null sec guys will see no real long term rise in production costs. Simultaneously, Hi/Lo PI farmers see major increases in their cost of production, either through Hi sec taxes or Lo sec defense/destruction/Pirate tax issues. Why would any business model include making your enemies wealthy if you could, in any way, avoid that ?

Once again, I am bewildered by this level of social engineering, unless of course, there is a hidden agenda that would lay plain the logic behind this change to PI. I'm sorry, but this change is like asking rice farmers to raise alligators in the rice paddies because demand for alligator leather is up : someone is going to get bit, and it'll be the farmers...