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Summer Patch nerfs T2 BPOs?

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Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-04-16 11:40:53 UTC
Is that true? Due to the newest dev blog, will t2 bpos get nerfed?
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#2 - 2014-04-16 12:14:11 UTC
I've read the Dev blogs so far and read most of the threads.
I don't see where T2 BPOs are being hurt or nerfed.
Of course, (and I may have this wrong) needing to move the BPOs about for manufacturing will make them more vulnerable but, I guess that's part of CCPs whole risk vs reward plan.
Nolen Cadmar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-04-16 12:53:48 UTC
Why would the changes effect T2 BPO's specifically? T2 BPO's will be used in stations and never in a POS with the new changes. So I guess build cost will be increased? But they'll still be making more profit than anyone running invention.

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Kythrol Dhorin
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-04-16 14:13:07 UTC
From what i understand t2 BPOs have the potential to recieve a minor buff. The removal of "extra materials" indicates that ME should play more of a factor in t2 production meaning increased costs for invention (where ME is often negative) and decreased costs for BPO owners.
Although considering the quantities involved i suspect this will be a negligible difference :P
brinelan
#5 - 2014-04-16 15:02:35 UTC
Agata Matahari wrote:
Is that true? Due to the newest dev blog, will t2 bpos get nerfed?


citation needed
RonPaul Rox
Prime Directive.
United Caldari Space Command.
#6 - 2014-04-16 18:15:30 UTC
Kythrol Dhorin wrote:
From what i understand t2 BPOs have the potential to recieve a minor buff. The removal of "extra materials" indicates that ME should play more of a factor in t2 production meaning increased costs for invention (where ME is often negative) and decreased costs for BPO owners.
Although considering the quantities involved i suspect this will be a negligible difference :P



exactly, as if t2 bpo holders werent already a priveleged class, they now have an even bigger advantage. invention ME= -4, t2 bpo ME= as high as they want

and now that ME affects more ingredients, they have a bigger cost advantage

http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL
Proton Power
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-04-16 18:21:59 UTC
While I understand the concern, don't forget most major t2 producers use POS's for quicker output. This will not be done once tihs patch hits, meaning they will be producing 15%-25% (Percentage may be off some sorry) less than what they are now.

So if demand is the same, t2 bpo producers are producing less, people doing invention will still make isk, and the ability to do theres in a POS with little risk, and ability to do multiple runs of the item non-stop whre a BPO holder can't (Unless they invent as well).
Bill Sharts
Aurora.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2014-04-16 19:19:16 UTC
Bpo copy time is also being reduced significantly (all bpos. Even t2). Which could open up a new market for researched t2 bpcs.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-04-17 01:35:06 UTC
It's all speculation until we get some real numbers
Eleisa Joringer
Les chips electriques
#10 - 2014-04-17 05:42:57 UTC
They wont be nerfed.... they will keep their efficiency if you put them in a pos.

i wonder when james and his new order will gank POSes
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#11 - 2014-04-17 10:22:01 UTC
Buff: Extra materials are being moved into base materials, in some fashion. so it's possible for ML to affect it.
Nerf: If you want to manufacture in a POS, the blueprint has to be in that POS.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-04-17 11:20:04 UTC
RonPaul Rox wrote:
Kythrol Dhorin wrote:
From what i understand t2 BPOs have the potential to recieve a minor buff. The removal of "extra materials" indicates that ME should play more of a factor in t2 production meaning increased costs for invention (where ME is often negative) and decreased costs for BPO owners.
Although considering the quantities involved i suspect this will be a negligible difference :P



exactly, as if t2 bpo holders werent already a priveleged class, they now have an even bigger advantage. invention ME= -4, t2 bpo ME= as high as they want

and now that ME affects more ingredients, they have a bigger cost advantage


AFAIK the size of the market for a lot of things dwarfs what any individual T2 BPO owner can produce in a given time so I don't think it's a major factor driving market competition. Also remember that T2 owners, if they bought it, more than likely paid so much for it that it'll take them 10 years to recover the initial investment before they even start turning a profit on them.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-04-17 12:16:23 UTC
There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-04-17 15:56:11 UTC
Agata Matahari wrote:
Is that true? Due to the newest dev blog, will t2 bpos get nerfed?


I like short answers.

No.

However the discussion above is quite interesting.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#15 - 2014-04-17 18:02:30 UTC
Not wishing to stir the pot but T2 BPO's are not really that much of a problem. For the most part higher quantities of T2 items can be made via invention. It's largely a case of envy. I realise the T2 BPOs should not have been distributed as they were at the time but everyone makes mistakes.

NB. I have never owned and probably never will have, or actually want, a T2 BPO. Big smile

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#16 - 2014-04-17 18:34:43 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Not wishing to stir the pot but T2 BPO's are not really that much of a problem. For the most part higher quantities of T2 items can be made via invention. It's largely a case of envy. I realise the T2 BPOs should not have been distributed as they were at the time but everyone makes mistakes.

NB. I have never owned and probably never will have, or actually want, a T2 BPO. Big smile



Right now, there's no problem with them.

It all depends on the changes to copy times. As long as they're not overly reduced on T2 BPOs, that will continue to be the case. If, say, the copy time was reduced to 1 hour for a full run copy (unlikely) there'd be an issue.


Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.


I'm waiting for the later devblogs before going crazy.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#17 - 2014-04-17 23:18:12 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.


Good point about the ME on invention. It'll make the T2 BPO more profitable relative to the T2 invented item. I guess it depends on what proportion of the market is BPO generated. I don't think CCP have ever released numbers on this, have they.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#18 - 2014-04-17 23:26:43 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.


Good point about the ME on invention. It'll make the T2 BPO more profitable relative to the T2 invented item. I guess it depends on what proportion of the market is BPO generated. I don't think CCP have ever released numbers on this, have they.

CCP Diagoras released some figures in 2012. K162 has them collated somewhere.

Hideously out of date by now, of course.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#19 - 2014-04-17 23:42:31 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk.



You're kidding right??

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#20 - 2014-04-18 03:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Derath Ellecon wrote:
There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk.

Blockade Runner. That's how I move BPO when I buy them.
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