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Guristas DED 3/10
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Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#21 - 2011-12-01 17:20:37 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
A-type small reps have been available from Sansha 3/10 for a long time. Unfortunately, boosters are where its at.

OK, since I've only ever done serious exploration in Guristas/Angel territory I shouldn't make generalized statements about A-types and better limit the discussion to boosters.

What I'm worried about is that risk vs. reward of this new Guristas 3/10 is seriously out of line compared to the other Guristas sites.
The old 4/10 is much harder to run, yet the best loot is worth significantly less. (A-type SSB vs. C-type MSB)
The old way to get the same A-type SSBs is to chase escalation chains into lowsec, which is much more difficult than this new hisec plex.
So I think a more balanced reward for the 3/10 would be a C-type SSB.

Quote:
I highly doubt a 2 week old noob is going to be able to "farm" these things. This site shares a signature strength with K162 wormholes, so even if you are specifically looking for it, it is still quite difficult to farm.

It's been a while since I had noob scanning skills/equipment, but I don't recall K162s to be particularly hard to scan. But anyway, my point is the imbalance with other sites of similar rewards which a noob wouldn't even remotely be able to run. So unless CCP wants to devalue the mods it's not a good idea to make them so easily available.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#22 - 2011-12-01 17:53:38 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:


What I'm worried about is that risk vs. reward of this new Guristas 3/10 is seriously out of line compared to the other Guristas sites.
The old 4/10 is much harder to run, yet the best loot is worth significantly less. (A-type SSB vs. C-type MSB)
The old way to get the same A-type SSBs is to chase escalation chains into lowsec, which is much more difficult than this new hisec plex.
So I think a more balanced reward for the 3/10 would be a C-type SSB.


C-type small is reserved for DED 1/10 and Hideouts.

Point being though, the price is going to drop significantly as people run this site. Thus the reward will drop for the now decreased risk. TBH the risk before was quite low (watch involved sniping a destroyer, vigil involved a station shoot that had a super low chance of dropping anything).

Players set the price though. It comes down to us. We determine what is valuable and what is not based on our demands. With that said, as supply increases steadily (and now this highly demanded item is very easy to get), prices will fall and thus the risk/reward ratio will be stabilized.

Think about this. The Pithum C-type booster is worth what? 400 mil? Imagine if that only dropped in low sec from the final escalation of Provisional Outpost. It would probably be worth more than the Pithum A-type Booster (which sits around 1 billion) simply because of the risk/demand factors. However, since it is also available in high/low sec DED 4/10, price is significantly lower than that hypothetical amount.

tl;dr prices will drop, mark my words

Quote:
It's been a while since I had noob scanning skills/equipment, but I don't recall K162s to be particularly hard to scan. But anyway, my point is the imbalance with other sites of similar rewards which a noob wouldn't even remotely be able to run. So unless CCP wants to devalue the mods it's not a good idea to make them so easily available.


The point I was making is that as this site shares the signature strength of K162 and K162s are in ridiculous abundance in high sec due to WH dwellers with static high sec holes, it will be rather difficult to "filter" and farm this site (same applies to Lookout, but who wants to farm that).

Noobs may stumble upon this site and strike it rich. Thats great! Thats as it should be. But again, as I said, the price is going to drop significantly to reflect the new supply source.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#23 - 2011-12-01 18:20:23 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
The old 4/10 is much harder to run, yet the best loot is worth significantly less. (A-type SSB vs. C-type MSB)
The old way to get the same A-type SSBs is to chase escalation chains into lowsec, which is much more difficult than this new hisec plex.
So I think a more balanced reward for the 3/10 would be a C-type SSB.


It's amazing to me how many people don't realize that there's a direct correlation between DED ratings and deadspace drops. Guristas 3/10 means Pithi A-type drops, period.

Emperor Salazar wrote:
Noobs may stumble upon this site and strike it rich. Thats great! Thats as it should be. But again, as I said, the price is going to drop significantly to reflect the new supply source.


And this is all a good thing. Pithi boosters have been out of whack for ages; this will pull them (more) in line with other small A-type modules. And it's hard to begrudge the noob explorer who stumbles on one out of nowhere.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#24 - 2011-12-01 18:33:10 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

It's amazing to me how many people don't realize that there's a direct correlation between DED ratings and deadspace drops. Guristas 3/10 means Pithi A-type drops, period.


I was actually looking for your post there (and failing that, had considered typing it all up but ::effort::).

I agree with you that this is all for the best. 600+ million isk for going to low sec after a high sec escalation and sniping a destroyer was Roll
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-01 22:58:34 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Rob Crowley wrote:
I ran this site twice so far, first time I got Pithi A-type SSB plus DG Rocket Launcher, second time only OPE.

I think this loot is seriously unbalanced regarding the difficulty of the site. Before this patch you had to go to lowsec to get A-type stuff and the sites there require a well-fitted/skilled ship, now a 2 week old noob in a T1 cruiser can farm A-types in hisec. I would be very surprised if this won't have a significant effect on the prices.

I understand that CCP wants their new sites to drop good stuff so we get all excited about them but I'd say the maximum a hisec 3/10 should be able to drop is small C-type stuff, that would be in line with the med C-types from the old 4/10s.


Players set the price unfortunately.

A-type small reps have been available from Sansha 3/10 for a long time. Unfortunately, boosters are where its at.

The price is going to drop on these things quite nicely and devalue them significantly, but I highly doubt a 2 week old noob is going to be able to "farm" these things. This site shares a signature strength with K162 wormholes, so even if you are specifically looking for it, it is still quite difficult to farm.


Actually it shares the same strength as 4/10's (Bug me thinks) and not K162's, so if you use DSP's your in luck Cool
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#26 - 2011-12-01 23:53:43 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:


Actually it shares the same strength as 4/10's (Bug me thinks) and not K162's, so if you use DSP's your in luck Cool


If its showing up as that now, then its new.

Last I checked (3 months ago probably), Lookout, 3/10 and K162 shared the same strength.
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#27 - 2011-12-02 12:02:56 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
I ran this site twice so far, first time I got Pithi A-type SSB plus DG Rocket Launcher, second time only OPE.

I think this loot is seriously unbalanced regarding the difficulty of the site. Before this patch you had to go to lowsec to get A-type stuff and the sites there require a well-fitted/skilled ship, now a 2 week old noob in a T1 cruiser can farm A-types in hisec. I would be very surprised if this won't have a significant effect on the prices.

I understand that CCP wants their new sites to drop good stuff so we get all excited about them but I'd say the maximum a hisec 3/10 should be able to drop is small C-type stuff, that would be in line with the med C-types from the old 4/10s.


i guess you missed the memo that was written when CCP first introduced exploration..

1/10 - C-type small HS
2/10 - B-type small HS
3/10 - A-type small HS

4/10 - C-type med HS/LS
5/10 - B-type med LS
6/10 - A-type med LS

7/10 - C-type large LS/null
8/10 - B-type large null
9/10 - A-type large null
10/10 - A/X-type large null

escalation plexes loosely fall in to the same brackets
Black Beth
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2011-12-02 12:49:40 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:

I think this loot is seriously unbalanced regarding the difficulty of the site. Before this patch you had to go to lowsec to get A-type stuff .


I'm sorry dude, but that's utter garbage. You've always been able to pick up 'i' A-Type small deadspace mods from 3/10s. That's what they drop :) Narcotics Warehouses and Command Relay Outposts have always dropped small A-Types.
Black Beth
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-12-02 12:51:24 UTC
joomla alacard wrote:
i was able to take a battlecruiser in


That needs sorting out fo sho.
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2011-12-02 13:21:39 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:

I agree with you that this is all for the best. 600+ million isk for going to low sec after a high sec escalation and sniping a destroyer was Roll


Well, I remeber the time when A-type small SB was about 400 mils. Slowly, prices went up. Why? Guristas Watch excalation is quiet time consuming, and the chances you get thru to the last step in low sec is about 1/5. Drop rate of SB in is about 15% percent, so it is quiet rare occasion when you get it. Not to say low sec vouage is not something many hi sec explorers willing to do, especially thru possible low-sec entrance camps. If 3/10 drops price for A-Type to about 100 mils a peace, would I be even bothered with Guristas Watch. Sure thing I will not.

Therefore, if last step of Watch drops rare implantants, it makes sense again to go thru Watch escalation. But in this scenario CCP should adjust drop tables for other factions Watches/Vigils too.

It is all just about ISK/effort/risk ratio.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#31 - 2011-12-02 13:45:04 UTC
5nipe wrote:
If 3/10 drops price for A-Type to about 100 mils a peace, would I be even bothered with Guristas Watch. Sure thing I will not.



Then you're a silly.

100 mil to go to low sec and pop a destroyer, bookmark can, and warp back after despawn? Thats free money. Vigil is the one that's not worth doing (or at least, one must be very careful).

What do the A-type small reps go for and do people go out to low sec for a chance at them?
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-12-02 14:15:00 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
5nipe wrote:
If 3/10 drops price for A-Type to about 100 mils a peace, would I be even bothered with Guristas Watch. Sure thing I will not.



Then you're a silly.

100 mil to go to low sec and pop a destroyer, bookmark can, and warp back after despawn? Thats free money. Vigil is the one that's not worth doing (or at least, one must be very careful).

What do the A-type small reps go for and do people go out to low sec for a chance at them?


just calculate the time for expedition (and based on my experience 4 out of 5 drops along the line), get appropriate ship, got to low sec, kill "the overseer", loot (if u a lucky enough to get anything, again 15% drop rate), get back.

Man, for this time, if you know what are you doing, you can make way more than 100M, even in hi sec.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#33 - 2011-12-02 14:19:38 UTC
5nipe wrote:


just calculate the time for expedition (and based on my experience 4 out of 5 drops along the line), get appropriate ship, got to low sec, kill "the overseer", loot (if u a lucky enough to get anything, again 15% drop rate), get back.

Man, for this time, if you know what are you doing, you can make way more than 100M, even in hi sec.


We're really getting into the "whats worth it for me, may not be worth it for you" area here but...

Tengu, Deep space probing along the way (I see escalations as simply giving you some direction for probing), and an easy escalation in low sec.

Its quite worth it IMO. Vigil not so much as you have to pound away at a station for quite some time.

Also, while I would go if it dropped down to 100 mil, I don't think it will. I think it will settle around the 200m-300m mark, but thats pure speculation.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#34 - 2011-12-02 17:58:02 UTC
5nipe wrote:
Well, I remeber the time when A-type small SB was about 400 mils. Slowly, prices went up. Why?


Actually, the why is much more on the demand side, not the supply side. Pithi A-types are almost custom-made for the now-ubiquitous PvE Tengu. Hence, higher price. Now we're seeing a supply-side adjustment, though demand isn't going down. Prices will drop; everyone will be happy.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-02 22:29:23 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
I ran this site twice so far, first time I got Pithi A-type SSB plus DG Rocket Launcher, second time only OPE.

I think this loot is seriously unbalanced regarding the difficulty of the site. Before this patch you had to go to lowsec to get A-type stuff and the sites there require a well-fitted/skilled ship, now a 2 week old noob in a T1 cruiser can farm A-types in hisec. I would be very surprised if this won't have a significant effect on the prices.

I understand that CCP wants their new sites to drop good stuff so we get all excited about them but I'd say the maximum a hisec 3/10 should be able to drop is small C-type stuff, that would be in line with the med C-types from the old 4/10s.


1/10s drop C-Type small stuff.
2/10s drop B-Type small stuff
3/10s drop A-Type small stuff
4/10s drop C-Type medium stuff
and so on...

It was like this before patch. A 2 week old could always farm A-Type stuff in high sec. Though it would be a giant pain trying to do those places with noob skills. Once upon a time I cleared a 3/10 Serp site in a dessy before patch. Took an hour. As I was starting on the final structure, a dude strolled up in a Proteus, took it out in like 10 seconds, and took the loot. After that I never tried to do exploration sites with noob skills and noob ships. Too much risk that someone will just do that instead.

If this were a major problem, A-Type smalls would be cheap.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-12-02 23:14:38 UTC
Laskeuma wrote:
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
Rob Crowley wrote:
I understand that CCP wants their new sites to drop good stuff so we get all excited about them but I'd say the maximum a hisec 3/10 should be able to drop is small C-type stuff, that would be in line with the med C-types from the old 4/10s.


The difference being one is small a-type and the other medium c-type. It's just because of half of EVE running shield and t3's why boosters are that pricey. Go do some 3/10's where armor stuff drops, you will find the value quite different. They will prolly also be coming down in price now (the small boosters), maybe even so much that droprates will be altered. We will see.


this, when I was new to eve I used to do exploration around in sepr space, got onyl armor stuff and didint make any isk from it (since its all like 20mil max)

then I came to my senses and jumped into angel / guritas space.


The AB from serp space 3/10 is 50m. I know... I got a few of them. But it's weird praying for an AB to drop as opposed to something cooler like a repper.

Quote:
What I'm worried about is that risk vs. reward of this new Guristas 3/10 is seriously out of line compared to the other Guristas sites.
The old 4/10 is much harder to run, yet the best loot is worth significantly less. (A-type SSB vs. C-type MSB)
The old way to get the same A-type SSBs is to chase escalation chains into lowsec, which is much more difficult than this new hisec plex.
So I think a more balanced reward for the 3/10 would be a C-type SSB.


No, what would be more balanced is for the A-type SSB to be much cheaper, as it will be after people farm the site. The Armor repper is like 20-30m tops. It won't fall that far because the demand is much higher, but still, small mods shouldn't be that ridiculously expensive.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#37 - 2011-12-03 20:29:50 UTC
Found the site. Updated OP with info.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#38 - 2011-12-04 17:40:42 UTC
lol so is this putting it in the wrong band only for the guristas one? If so i cry CONSPIRACY! not the first time this particulary faction was treated 'better' than the others ^^
Melina Lin
Universal Frog
#39 - 2011-12-04 18:20:24 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
If so i cry CONSPIRACY!


Pah, clearly CCP is trying to balance A-Type loot among the factions. They are a just bit clumsy is all. Roll
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-12-04 21:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: St Mio
I love how the Gurista 3/10 conveniently shares the same strength as the 4/10, whilst all the other 3/10s have to put up with a billion K162s and those ghastly Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestations.

Also, I've done the wiki page for the Guri 3/10, and bug reported the DG Irregular's name being glitched.

Update:
Quote:
This report has been attached to a defect