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New form of wardec: VENDETTA
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Solecist Project
#21 - 2014-04-16 12:38:37 UTC
I like this idea and thus can't approve of it,
because it would completely wreck the game.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-04-16 14:38:55 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
I like this idea and thus can't approve of it,
because it would completely wreck the game.

And what the frak exactly does a one month old toon (hiding out in an NPC corp) while sperging local and forums know about what is 'good or bad for the game'?

Just askin.

F

Would you like to know more?
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-04-16 14:54:00 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
I like this idea and thus can't approve of it,
because it would completely wreck the game.

And what the frak exactly does a one month old toon (hiding out in an NPC corp) while sperging local and forums know about what is 'good or bad for the game'?

Just askin.

F


Solecist has a love/hate relationship with EvE. I believe he biomassed the last incarnation of Solecist Project who was an active ganker in his day. He lothed every other ganker because they were not doing it right. For instance, they weren't Solecist Project while ganking. But he has been around.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#24 - 2014-04-16 15:49:48 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
I like this idea and thus can't approve of it,
because it would completely wreck the game.

And what the frak exactly does a one month old toon (hiding out in an NPC corp) while sperging local and forums know about what is 'good or bad for the game'?

Just askin.

F


Solecist has a love/hate relationship with EvE. I believe he biomassed the last incarnation of Solecist Project who was an active ganker in his day. He lothed every other ganker because they were not doing it right. For instance, they weren't Solecist Project while ganking. But he has been around.
It was Solstice Project back then, and he sold it.

Who put the goat in there?
Winchester Steele
#25 - 2014-04-16 15:50:24 UTC
Cavalira wrote:
Why don't you just move to low/nullsec?



Because he wants to play in hi-sec. It's fun to find interesting new ways to shoot at people who don't want to be shot at. And who said he never went to low/null?

Why the **** do you care anyway?

...

Bumsicle Wedgie
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-04-16 16:02:47 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
Cavalira wrote:
Why don't you just move to low/nullsec?



Because he wants to play in hi-sec. It's fun to find interesting new ways to shoot at people who don't want to be shot at. And who said he never went to low/null?

Why the **** do you care anyway?


I believe he mad a suggestion, and whilst we're being all gangsta and up in yo face an shiz...

Who the **** are you anyway?
Subject 4927
Unsteady
Triumvirate.
#27 - 2014-04-16 16:57:19 UTC
I've been playing EVE for i'd say 9 years now.
This has to be one of the worst ideas i have ever seen on C&P and on the forums in general. Most of my time in EVE I've spent doing safari's (awoxing), Ganking and generally pissing people off for my enjoyment.

That being said, I don't think we should mess with highsec mechanics (most of them). Highsec is where people like me get things done. It's important to keep highsec the way it is for the most part. I like to compare it to hunting. Sure you go hunt and shoot baby deers and what not, But you don't chop down all the trees and strip the forest. Carebears will always be more valuable to CCP thus anything can could hinder that user base won't even be looked at. All we can do is use the rules put in place to do what we enjoy.

Also, If someone drops corp because of a wardec, Don't use C&P to complain. Just gank him if you really need to kill him.



This topic opens up so many more cons on putting war's on mining corps then it does pros.

http://subjectandfriends.wordpress.com
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-04-16 17:03:10 UTC
Shederov Blood wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
I like this idea and thus can't approve of it,
because it would completely wreck the game.

And what the frak exactly does a one month old toon (hiding out in an NPC corp) while sperging local and forums know about what is 'good or bad for the game'?

Just askin.

F


Solecist has a love/hate relationship with EvE. I believe he biomassed the last incarnation of Solecist Project who was an active ganker in his day. He lothed every other ganker because they were not doing it right. For instance, they weren't Solecist Project while ganking. But he has been around.
It was Solstice Project back then, and he sold it.


If you are going to require I spell things correctly you will need to find some way to limit my intake of rum. But I stand corrected on those two points.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#29 - 2014-04-17 01:12:31 UTC
Actually I am making this proposal not because 'I want to shoot stuff', but because once upon a time CCP considered evading war decs an exploit, and NPC corps weren't supposed to be the perfect place to hide, they were supposed to be placeholders while you looked for (or made) a player corp to join.

Altho I admit I want to do something violent when I see one player with 50+ alts in a mining fleet. And they are all in NPC corps.

And yes I'm one of those players that wish CCP would ban ISboxer.

Probably the closest thing to my idea that CCP would even consider is having a wardec 'follow' anyone who dropped corp during a dec (for however long CCP decides), and I would consider that a vast improvement.

As for NPC corps in general, CCP could definitely encourage players to not stay in them by assessing a very high sales tax on ANY financial transaction they make.

Say, 50% or so. On ANY sale or purchase.

Or, even better, simply make it so players in an NPC corp have much larger penalties for reprocessing and manufacturing.


Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#30 - 2014-04-17 05:36:49 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Actually I am making this proposal not because 'I want to shoot stuff', but because once upon a time CCP considered evading war decs an exploit, and NPC corps weren't supposed to be the perfect place to hide, they were supposed to be placeholders while you looked for (or made) a player corp to join.

Altho I admit I want to do something violent when I see one player with 50+ alts in a mining fleet. And they are all in NPC corps.

And yes I'm one of those players that wish CCP would ban ISboxer.

Probably the closest thing to my idea that CCP would even consider is having a wardec 'follow' anyone who dropped corp during a dec (for however long CCP decides), and I would consider that a vast improvement.

As for NPC corps in general, CCP could definitely encourage players to not stay in them by assessing a very high sales tax on ANY financial transaction they make.

Say, 50% or so. On ANY sale or purchase.

Or, even better, simply make it so players in an NPC corp have much larger penalties for reprocessing and manufacturing.




I agree players should be playing together, not ignoring each other and essentially playing solo. The problem is all you have there is a very large stick without any carrots. The current state of the war dec mechanics PUNISHES players foolish enough to leave the npc corps. Gevlon goblin argues that any player in a high sec pve corp is pretty much by definition a moron who doesn't understand the game and should be treated as such: Its hard to argue with him when I see the community treat him as such and feast on the inevitable tears.

As it stands the penalty for being in a player corp (your free lunch for predators) doesnt outway any possible benefits. A 50% tax rate? fine my trader character is in its own corp in a station where it never undocks and has perfect refine. It contracts ships to my npc corp miners who contract the ore back to it. Just dodged your stick. wheres your carrot?

Will gank for food
Istyn
Freight Club
#31 - 2014-04-17 05:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Istyn
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Suppose instead of having Vendettas, penalties for dodging decs were actually enforced.


Unfortunately there are no penalties for dodging decs anymore, CCP no longer considers it an exploit.


The inability to rejoin the corp for the duration of the war or 7 days, whichever is shorter, is the penalty.

What would be the counter mechanic to this vendetta dec? Especially when someone gets dogpiled by multiple (presumably cheap, considering war decs start at 50m and increase on the 'paying for targets' basis) vendetta decs?
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#32 - 2014-04-17 05:49:04 UTC
Istyn wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Suppose instead of having Vendettas, penalties for dodging decs were actually enforced.


Unfortunately there are no penalties for dodging decs anymore, CCP no longer considers it an exploit.


The inability to rejoin the corp for the duration of the war or 7 days, whichever is shorter, is the penalty.

What would be the counter mechanic to this vendetta dec? Especially when someone gets dogpiled by multiple (presumably cheap, considering war decs start at 50m and increase on the 'paying for targets' basis) vendetta decs?



the counter is to not undock.

Will gank for food
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-04-17 06:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Tarojan wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Actually I am making this proposal not because 'I want to shoot stuff', but because once upon a time CCP considered evading war decs an exploit, and NPC corps weren't supposed to be the perfect place to hide, they were supposed to be placeholders while you looked for (or made) a player corp to join.

Altho I admit I want to do something violent when I see one player with 50+ alts in a mining fleet. And they are all in NPC corps.

And yes I'm one of those players that wish CCP would ban ISboxer.

Probably the closest thing to my idea that CCP would even consider is having a wardec 'follow' anyone who dropped corp during a dec (for however long CCP decides), and I would consider that a vast improvement.

As for NPC corps in general, CCP could definitely encourage players to not stay in them by assessing a very high sales tax on ANY financial transaction they make.

Say, 50% or so. On ANY sale or purchase.

Or, even better, simply make it so players in an NPC corp have much larger penalties for reprocessing and manufacturing.




I agree players should be playing together, not ignoring each other and essentially playing solo. The problem is all you have there is a very large stick without any carrots. The current state of the war dec mechanics PUNISHES players foolish enough to leave the npc corps. Gevlon goblin argues that any player in a high sec pve corp is pretty much by definition a moron who doesn't understand the game and should be treated as such: Its hard to argue with him when I see the community treat him as such and feast on the inevitable tears.

As it stands the penalty for being in a player corp (your free lunch for predators) doesnt outway any possible benefits. A 50% tax rate? fine my trader character is in its own corp in a station where it never undocks and has perfect refine. It contracts ships to my npc corp miners who contract the ore back to it. Just dodged your stick. wheres your carrot?


You want to dictate how I play my game? I will damn well play SOLO if I want to. Not because you think I am doing it wrong.

The minute people start dictating when and how people leave corporations. You are just going to add extra frustration to ontop of something not needed.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#34 - 2014-04-17 06:15:14 UTC
Err Mr Kane sir, I wouldn't presume to dictate anything to you at all Shocked If i may hesitantly point it out though, you don't play alone from my understanding? the fact the people you play with wouldn't necessarily choose to be playing with you if they had a choice is neither here nor there.

Will gank for food
Istyn
Freight Club
#35 - 2014-04-17 06:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Istyn
Tarojan wrote:
Istyn wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Suppose instead of having Vendettas, penalties for dodging decs were actually enforced.


Unfortunately there are no penalties for dodging decs anymore, CCP no longer considers it an exploit.


The inability to rejoin the corp for the duration of the war or 7 days, whichever is shorter, is the penalty.

What would be the counter mechanic to this vendetta dec? Especially when someone gets dogpiled by multiple (presumably cheap, considering war decs start at 50m and increase on the 'paying for targets' basis) vendetta decs?



the counter is to not undock.


Which is exactly what people complain about when they decide to wardec a 5 man mining corp who, unsurprisingly, just play something else for a week.

That's not a counter.
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#36 - 2014-04-17 07:14:19 UTC
same counter if your being corpse camped in a diff mmo: log out as a ghost. War decced and cant drop corp? set your skill queue for a week and go play a different game. Mike Adoulin is trying to solve a problem hes having and I appreciate his issue, BUT you cant force people to play if they arent having fun. Try to force them and you'll just make them stop playing. Thats why I think the ops idea isnt a good one.

Will gank for food
Jake Patton
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-04-17 11:16:10 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
If a player drops corp during nay wardec, they would have a vendetta for the remaining period of the dec.
This would turn into a management nightmare. For instance, imagine you dec a small corp and this corp joins a large alliance. From that point on, every member that drops from any corp in that alliance will create a new Vendetta. And when that player joins another corp, a new wardec is created. If the alliance is big enough, the amount of new wars / Vendettas being created will be ridiculously high.

Also, if this works both ways, I can see it being abused for dec sharing. Example, if Alliance A decs Alliance B, players in those alliances can transfer the war to any other entity of their choosing.
If it works like that I can see people getting free wars with, for instance, the Goons by exploiting their war with Marmite/Lemmings.

Very soon everyone will be at war with everyone.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#38 - 2014-04-17 12:22:56 UTC
Jake Patton wrote:
Very soon everyone will be at war with everyone.


As beautifully glorious that would be to see......yeah, not good for the game.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2014-04-17 12:28:37 UTC
Perhaps a simpler way to address the "drop corp" dodge on wardecs is for "concord" to put a luxury tax on the process. When a player drops corp during a Dec he or she has to pay a concord filing tax (a percentage of the DEC cost perhaps?) to compensate for the administrative support required to reset global standings across the empire.

This adds some "pain" or detrimental factor for the dropper and gives a much needed isk sink to further stem isk floods. And gives a means for fun new mission class doing concord administration (the last is sarcasm)
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-04-17 14:57:26 UTC
My obligatory chiming in with fixes to existing war mechanics...

- Increase NPC corp taxes to 50%, as incentive for players to join & remain in player (deccable) corps. Incentive, NOT force mind you. You can hide out there forever like a pansy if you insist, but it should cost hella more for that privilege than does today.

- Transfer wars with an individual to his desto corp when leaving corp under wardec. Dropping to an NPC corp? Put him in stasis for 7 days (or duration of dec, whichever is shorter). Joining a corp means you accept the risk of being decced, don't want to be decced then dont join a corp, but you then need to pony up on that 50% NPC corp tax then.

- Put wardec fees into a pot that are claimable by the defender, based on kill values against the aggressor, to try and inspire defenders to come out and fight (or hunt aggressor targets).

Wars should mean something when they happen, and the existing exploit allowing their ducking on a whim closed. Today wars are actually already 100% consensual because pansies can just drop corp, without even paying a premium or delay.

As always, until the above changes are made Lords Of Midnight will continue to hunt down innocent carebears in their mission pockets and shoot them in the face.

F


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