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Looking for L4 Hybrid turret ship
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Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-04-16 14:26:07 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Range bonus is a damage bonus. If you can use antimatter out to 70km+ then you don't have to switch to an ammo type that does much less DPS.

Edit: Not to mention, with high natural tank (resists)- you can probably get away with more mag stabs, and less tank than you would need on another ship (or in this case, a target painter or tracking computer).

range bonus is not a damage bonus if the ships WITH a damage bonus still have sufficient range. as it stands, most decent mission ships are perfectly capable of projecting upwards of 1k dps to 40km. the rokh falls flat in this regard, with or without antimatter.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Tarikla
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-04-16 14:36:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Kronos, the rep bonus and bastion mode will more than make up for deficient armor skills.



This man speaks truth.

Plus, having long range blasters is just downright fun.


All Hail our Kronos Overlords.
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-04-16 15:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Antaris
This would be one option, but the navy Domi does it far better(higher dps, extra med). Most of the platforms perform better in a armor tank, because you can combine mobility, tackle and good dps better with the given limits on CPU on gallente hulls.

[Hyperion, New Setup 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Internal Force Field Array I

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field

425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Caldari Navy Warden x5
Hobgoblin II x10

As for best, Vindicator but it works far better with armor tank on it then with shield tank because of the cap issues the hull got.
Ole' McDolan
Vastly Intellectual Tall Tax Union
#24 - 2014-04-16 19:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ole' McDolan
Thanks for your exhausting answers, I will be a little more specific.

Up until now I have been running L4s with Raven. Comfortably hitting up to 93km (targeting range) without problems, my hobs II (or precision missiles if necessary) tearing apart anything that is smaller and dangerous.

However running L4s over and over again is super dull, so I wanted to try Incursions, therefore I am skilling up hybrids now in hopes of using Rokh for them, since I have caldari BS at level 5 already.
In future I hope to use Vindicator, but that is quite a distant future for me right now.

And since running L4s with missiles is also pretty dull, I thought I could start using hybrids as well to practice for incursions.

So my reason for wanting a shield tank is simply because I have invested skills in it and now I have higher priority for my SP than putting them in armor tank, and also Rokh would benefit from my Caldari BS at 5.
Also I am looking for T1 BS due to financial and skill reasons.
While 1k dps at 40km is nice, it is way too close for comfort due to me being used to run cruise missiles and kill stuff at over twice that.
Dominix is way out of my skill queue and I am not a huge fan of drone boats.

But now some of you say that Rokh is abysmal in terms of mission runing, which is kinda a bummer. Is it really that bad?

I mean in EFT using All Skills 5 the difference between the Raven build I am using and the Rokh fit posted by Nolen there is only about 80dps more on Raven (antimatter on Rokh)
On the other hand the Rokh will shoot things at probably higher range and has more EHP(just guessing, dont know where do I see the optimal range and falloff with all the bonuses included in EFT). However it has about 3 times the signature size (not sure how will this affect mission running, but since there is MJD on the Rokh I assume it wont be a huge problem unless I screw up royally).
Also I will definitely skill up for Vindicator, so Hyperion is a possibility, but right now I cant afford to skill up armor tank.

So if this was between shield tanked Hyperion and Rokh, which one would be better suited for L4 security missions?
Which one is better in the hands of a capable pilot?
Which one is better for a newbie?

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions, I appreciate you spending time reading and posting.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#25 - 2014-04-16 21:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
The general rule is that newbies should prefer tank to gank within reason, and veterans will prefer gank to tank. Endgame PVE ships are pretty much glass cannons. So that points to the Rokh as a more new-player friendly ship.

Incursion FCs like to see all four resists around or above 70%, which the Rokh can do very easily, especially since you've trained Caldari Battleship V: You get a 20% bonus to all resists for free.

You'll never get that much DPS out of it, but railgun alpha isn't bad at all, and its range is unparalleled, so you can shoot things from anywhere on grid behind the safety of a monster tank. If too many rats get too close and defeat your tracking, hit the MJD and kill them at leisure.

(Note that Incursion fits are highly idiosyncratic, and they don't often look like mission fits, mostly because you're outsourcing your tank to the logistics pilots in an Incursion.)

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#26 - 2014-04-16 22:27:55 UTC
As an incursion FC, I will ask you to please run a shield mega or navy mega (for VGs+ AS) or a hype/ navy mega for HQs while skilling into a vindi. The rokh has the tank for incursions, but its anemic damage, lack of utility bonus ( even with TPs, its meh, and for webs, faggedaboutit with vindis on grid) and general reputation as a cap hog in HQs or perpetual leech in VGs make it a substandard incursion boat in any community seeking to be competitive.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ole' McDolan
Vastly Intellectual Tall Tax Union
#27 - 2014-04-17 11:31:12 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
As an incursion FC, I will ask you to please run a shield mega or navy mega (for VGs+ AS) or a hype/ navy mega for HQs while skilling into a vindi. The rokh has the tank for incursions, but its anemic damage, lack of utility bonus ( even with TPs, its meh, and for webs, faggedaboutit with vindis on grid) and general reputation as a cap hog in HQs or perpetual leech in VGs make it a substandard incursion boat in any community seeking to be competitive.


I just dont get why is that. I tried 2 builds in EFT just to see if the difference is so big to constitute as one being a cap or hog or a leech, but the dps difference was 64 dps. Hyperion did 64 dps, but at 13km shorter optimal range. The difference in alpha was 326.

I just dont see that big reason for me to reskill to gallente BS level 5 right now for the sake fo having 64 dps more.

The builds I tested were:

[Rokh, Test]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I



AND



[Hyperion, Test]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot I x5
Warrior II x10
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-04-17 14:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
hyperion is only better when u use 5 sentries. i get around 1040dps

[Hyperion, shield mission]

6x 350mm Prototype Gauss Gun (Antimatter Charge L)

Large Micro Jump Drive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 800)
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Domination Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Domination Thermic Dissipation Amplifier

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
3x Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Internal Force Field Array I

Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II

5x Garde II
5x Hobgoblin II

EDIT: This is a mission fit ofcourse, incursion fit is normaly blaster and heavy drones
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#29 - 2014-04-17 15:16:31 UTC
If you thought a Raven was boring....
You'll probably self destruct after 2 missions in a Rokh.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#30 - 2014-04-17 21:59:12 UTC
Ole' McDolan wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
As an incursion FC, I will ask you to please run a shield mega or navy mega (for VGs+ AS) or a hype/ navy mega for HQs while skilling into a vindi. The rokh has the tank for incursions, but its anemic damage, lack of utility bonus ( even with TPs, its meh, and for webs, faggedaboutit with vindis on grid) and general reputation as a cap hog in HQs or perpetual leech in VGs make it a substandard incursion boat in any community seeking to be competitive.


I just dont get why is that. I tried 2 builds in EFT just to see if the difference is so big to constitute as one being a cap or hog or a leech, but the dps difference was 64 dps. Hyperion did 64 dps, but at 13km shorter optimal range. The difference in alpha was 326.

I just dont see that big reason for me to reskill to gallente BS level 5 right now for the sake fo having 64 dps more.

The builds I tested were:
*mission fits snipped*

In mission fits, the rokh will perform much better than either of those with similar skills. especially with rails. The reason I posted that is more because the rokh underperforms in incursion fits. That 64dps will turn into 2-300 with fully skilled blasters and faction damage mods + rigs for DPS, as is common on the better t1 hulls while finishing the grind to pirate BS skills.
If incursions, especially top tier incursions is really a goal, gallante BS for mach/vindi or amar BS for NM is certainly almost a requirement at some point.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ole' McDolan
Vastly Intellectual Tall Tax Union
#31 - 2014-04-18 11:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ole' McDolan
James Baboli wrote:
Ole' McDolan wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
As an incursion FC, I will ask you to please run a shield mega or navy mega (for VGs+ AS) or a hype/ navy mega for HQs while skilling into a vindi. The rokh has the tank for incursions, but its anemic damage, lack of utility bonus ( even with TPs, its meh, and for webs, faggedaboutit with vindis on grid) and general reputation as a cap hog in HQs or perpetual leech in VGs make it a substandard incursion boat in any community seeking to be competitive.


I just dont get why is that. I tried 2 builds in EFT just to see if the difference is so big to constitute as one being a cap or hog or a leech, but the dps difference was 64 dps. Hyperion did 64 dps, but at 13km shorter optimal range. The difference in alpha was 326.

I just dont see that big reason for me to reskill to gallente BS level 5 right now for the sake fo having 64 dps more.

The builds I tested were:
*mission fits snipped*

In mission fits, the rokh will perform much better than either of those with similar skills. especially with rails. The reason I posted that is more because the rokh underperforms in incursion fits. That 64dps will turn into 2-300 with fully skilled blasters and faction damage mods + rigs for DPS, as is common on the better t1 hulls while finishing the grind to pirate BS skills.
If incursions, especially top tier incursions is really a goal, gallante BS for mach/vindi or amar BS for NM is certainly almost a requirement at some point.

You are missing the point of my post completely.
With fully skilled blaster and faction damage mods + rigs for DPS yes, it will be worth it flying Hyperion instead of Rokh.
But that is distant future. By the time I can afford such fit I will have already skills in Gallente BS so obviously I wont be using Rokh anymore.
As of now, for me Rokh would be perfectly fine and the difference Hyperion would make (especially since I lack the BS skills for it) would be insignificant in Incursions.
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