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Extra Materials
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Tylo Tungsten
Mega Global Compucon
#1 - 2014-04-16 04:09:59 UTC
With "Extra Materials" going away, do you think this will cause all those items and ships that had them to actually take "less" isk to build than they currently do now?

Before, there was no way to reduce the cost of the Extra Materials, but now there will be.
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#2 - 2014-04-16 04:37:06 UTC
Unless I'm missing something obvious, won't the exact opposite happen? Extra materials will now be subject to waste.

Either way, it will be an imperceptible change to build costs overall, especially when overshadowed by the new reprocessing changes.
Professional Forum Alt
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-04-16 07:20:55 UTC
They hinted that production cost is going up - unless, got you got it highly researched and/or skills

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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#4 - 2014-04-16 07:42:55 UTC
Extra materials will roll into normal materials. Normal materials are subject to waste.

This increased waste will only impact characters who have not trained Production Efficiency to V and/or do not have a reasonably well ME researched BPO. I can't imagine that much of EVE's pricing is set by those characters, so I can't imagine it having much of an impact.
nyord Miromme
nyords tax heaven
#5 - 2014-04-16 16:20:38 UTC
T2 manufacturing could be effected and get more expensive because the cant research their prints normally.

mfg nyord
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#6 - 2014-04-16 16:36:36 UTC
nyord Miromme wrote:
T2 manufacturing could be effected and get more expensive because the cant research their prints normally.

mfg nyord

What is normally?
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#7 - 2014-04-16 19:22:13 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
nyord Miromme wrote:
T2 manufacturing could be effected and get more expensive because the cant research their prints normally.

mfg nyord

What is normally?


T2 manufacturing is normally done with invented BPCs.

T2 BPCs with negative ME will potentially see the largest impact from the extra materials change.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2014-04-21 16:32:32 UTC
It was stated in the relevant thread that the requirement for the former extra materials, such as ships for T2 ship BPCs, will not see an increase, because requiring 2 or more Ravens for a Golem BPC would be a bad idea.

The easiest way to do this would be to leave the T1 variant requirement as an extra material. But I have a feeling CCP has some programming wizardry they want to try.

Don't ask me to find it plz. Thread is getting big.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2014-04-21 17:39:36 UTC

Build costs should increase in general, as MFG costs are rising and build materials become more subject to ME levels.

However, we must wait to hear how POS and Sov structures improve S&I efficiencies.
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#10 - 2014-04-21 22:05:06 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
It was stated in the relevant thread that the requirement for the former extra materials, such as ships for T2 ship BPCs, will not see an increase, because requiring 2 or more Ravens for a Golem BPC would be a bad idea.

The easiest way to do this would be to leave the T1 variant requirement as an extra material. But I have a feeling CCP has some programming wizardry they want to try.

Don't ask me to find it plz. Thread is getting big.

I read it, too. CCP Ytterbium said that specific T1 "extra" materials, despite being rolled into normal materials, would not be subject to waste factors. The specific T1 materials being ships and modules; extra minerals, consumer goods, T2 components, and such *would* be subject to waste factors.

Cite: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4479060#post4479060

MDD
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#11 - 2014-04-22 07:05:06 UTC
mechtech wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
nyord Miromme wrote:
T2 manufacturing could be effected and get more expensive because the cant research their prints normally.

mfg nyord

What is normally?


T2 manufacturing is normally done with invented BPCs.

T2 BPCs with negative ME will potentially see the largest impact from the extra materials change.



This will affect a minority of modules.

For example, Magstab II will go up a moderate amount (requires 7 Microprocessors instead of 5 at 50% waste, and those microprocessors are a significant part of the build cost). Other modules will hardly notice it.

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#12 - 2014-04-22 07:23:49 UTC
mechtech wrote:
Unless I'm missing something obvious, won't the exact opposite happen? Extra materials will now be subject to waste.

Either way, it will be an imperceptible change to build costs overall, especially when overshadowed by the new reprocessing changes.


Nah - waste is just a measure of how from 10% reduction in listed materials your research has achieved.

The big problem with extra materials is that it scales down the effectiveness of material research. ie my dominix BPO has 0.3% waste but thats only saving me about 4% materials vs a dominix BPO with 10% waste (ie unresearched). A period of that was fine, since the base price of the BPO was raised, but it can't go on like that forever.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#13 - 2014-04-22 10:09:28 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
mechtech wrote:
Unless I'm missing something obvious, won't the exact opposite happen? Extra materials will now be subject to waste.

Either way, it will be an imperceptible change to build costs overall, especially when overshadowed by the new reprocessing changes.


Nah - waste is just a measure of how from 10% reduction in listed materials your research has achieved.

The big problem with extra materials is that it scales down the effectiveness of material research. ie my dominix BPO has 0.3% waste but thats only saving me about 4% materials vs a dominix BPO with 10% waste (ie unresearched). A period of that was fine, since the base price of the BPO was raised, but it can't go on like that forever.
This makes little sense, and sounds like you are talking about waste being applied in reverse (so making a BPO with default waste it's "base" materials, which it is not).
Waste is a measure of how many more materials over an items basic manufacturing requirements a given BPO needs. So an item taking 100 trit (as a base, perfect requirement) would take 110 trit at 10% waste, so an unreaserched BPO will show that.

What mechtech is saying is correct. Extras will just be turned into normal, thus subject to waste in exactly the same way. So for items with extra materials, at the very best with a completely prefect BPO (0 waste), the build costs will be the same. At any other time, the build costs will be increased. So with the example above, if it used to take 100 normal and 100 extra trit, then an unresearched BPO will take 220 trit to build whereas it would have taken 210. In both cases at perfect ML, the BPO would have taken 200.

The merging of the materials in will also affect the "perfect" material levels for each BPO. A BPO with extras that used to be perfect for megacyte will likely need more research to obtain that level again.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2014-04-22 14:14:17 UTC
mechtech wrote:
T2 manufacturing is normally done with invented BPCs.

T2 BPCs with negative ME will potentially see the largest impact from the extra materials change.

Example: Inventing a jump freighter without a decryptor (never done, used for example only) would yield a ML -4 BPC with 50% waste, and could require 2 freighters (50% waste on 1 unit rounds to 2 units) if all extra materials are folded in.
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#15 - 2014-04-22 16:47:17 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Example: Inventing a jump freighter without a decryptor (never done, used for example only) would yield a ML -4 BPC with 50% waste, and could require 2 freighters (50% waste on 1 unit rounds to 2 units) if all extra materials are folded in.

No. Go read earlier in this thread, specifically my last post.

MDD