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CODE.d 6,149
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d Likes received: 6,149	#641 - 2014-04-16 15:58:49 UTC 2 I think the SoE ships should get the Guristas drone bonuses and we should just make the Gursitas Pirate line missile-based and be done with it. As the only remaining drone-based ship, the Nestor might actually have some appeal. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#642 - 2014-04-16 15:59:48 UTC

TrouserDeagle wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Remember the damage is not 100% applied

-25km range.
-2.5 effective medium drones.
-2.5 effective light drones.
- 3 heavy ECM drones plus bonus.
-3 heavy repair drones plus bonus.
Torpedoes no longer viable (if anyone ever used them)

all of that is stupid. damage bonused cruise missiles are better in every way than range bonused torpedoes, and torpedoes are terrible anyway. lol @ ecm and repair drones.

If you are going to quote do not ignore the most important phrase

"The rest apart from the 25km range loss is dealable with, part of the quid pro quo."

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

TrouserDeagle

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 1,293

#643 - 2014-04-16 16:03:07 UTC

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

TrouserDeagle wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

all of that is stupid. damage bonused cruise missiles are better in every way than range bonused torpedoes, and torpedoes are terrible anyway. lol @ ecm and repair drones.

If you are going to quote do not ignore the most important phrase

"The rest apart from the 25km range loss is dealable with, part of the quid pro quo."

it's actually about an 80km range loss, but you still shouldn't care about it. if you're going to play spaceships, don't be terrible at spaceships.

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#644 - 2014-04-16 16:04:05 UTC

RATTLESNAKE
Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage
Caldari Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 25% missile rate of fire

Slot layout: 7H(+1), 7M, 5L(-1); 0 turrets, 6 launchers(+2)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 75(-325)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

TrouserDeagle

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 1,293

#645 - 2014-04-16 16:04:12 UTC

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

I think the SoE ships should get the Guristas drone bonuses and we should just make the Gursitas Pirate line missile-based and be done with it. As the only remaining drone-based ship, the Nestor might actually have some appeal.

except that 5 drones into 2 isn't better. it wouldn't have any appeal, it would still be even more awful than the astero and stratios.

Harvey James

The Sengoku Legacy

Likes received: 1,267

#646 - 2014-04-16 16:05:01 UTC

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

then its just a scorp navy issue....

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Morukk Nuamzzar

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 39

#647 - 2014-04-16 16:05:25 UTC

scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:

So we can complain about the turrets on the rendering of a Machariel not being balanced, but we can't complain that the RS is still a gimp when compared to the other pirate BS's?

Rattlesnake

Role Bonus: something something smartbombs range and capacitor use

Can fit cover ops cloaking devices

Slot layout: 7H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers

Problem solved.


Arthur Aihaken CODE.d Likes received: 6,149	#648 - 2014-04-16 16:06:45 UTC \| Edited by: Arthur Aihaken Morukk Nuamzzar wrote: Can fit cover ops cloaking devices Oh, that will go over well... Harvey James wrote: then its just a scorp navy issue.... Is that any different than a Machy Vargur, Vindi Megathron or Nighty Arma? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#649 - 2014-04-16 16:15:45 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

Silvetica Dian wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat? Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

So what are you saying, that 5 unbonused light drones are suddenly unable to deal with a few frigates?

No what I am saying is that you have 25km less range and time to shoot them in and if you fail, it is harder and takes longer to kill them, If you are overwhelmed and you MJD away, then you have to wait for 25*10 seconds (over two minutes) burning towards them , before you can reengage them with your sentries.

Of course you can kill them eventually, but it's Not exactly improving gameplay is it?

So i am wondering how Raven pilots with 5 unbonused light drones and no DDA's (unlike the 2-3 that will be on most RS) cope with these frigates of doom? I guess they all die every mission and the pilots just keep replacing them.

For the love of all the gods stop complaining about the amazing RS buff already. Unless you really think the extra 2-300 dps is going to slow down your damn missions/anoms. A few seconds longer maybe to kill 1-2 frigs that got close whilst shaving multiple minutes off your completion times.

And as for the linear thinking regarding the MJD. Your maths teacher called and apologises for forgetting to tell you about Pythagoras.
Here is a handy link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem

Reading these balance threads makes me dispair of humanity.

It has been repeatedly said that the fact that light drones are unbonused is a minor issue in the scheme of things, it is the GILA that suffers with this issue mostly..

Secondly a triangle has 3 sides, the MjD has a 3 minute activation cooldown. So for 2 minutes you burn towards the target or you take a further 6 minutes to MJD The remaining 2 sides of the triangle. (As things are moving in this time) Or as currently you can microjump 100km once and shoot them. A little simpler and less of a pain in the ass?

The drone link augmentors are an essential fit on a DRONE BOAT fitting the new bonus launcher (which is a wonderful thing by the way) harms its functionality as a DRONE BOAT.

It effectively limits the ship into the role of a mid or close range brawler.
Nothing wrong with that per se. But to have that as the ONLY effective role is not generally what one is expecting or wanting.

I believe that CCP rise was uncertain as to whether adding another bonus would disturb players or whether they wanted it.
As it would add nothing to the actual power but give a wide choice of roles to the ship without treading on the roles of the raven navy or the dominix I believe it is a good choice.

With a bonus of a built in 25km drone control range, the ship can continue in it's current role, with the choice to fit for more missile damage, the same drone damage at present with a bit extra missile, close range torpedo brawler, mid range assault. Or a combination of roles.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Aralieus

Shadowbane Syndicate

Likes received: 301

#650 - 2014-04-16 16:16:03 UTC

Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:

CCP Rise wrote:

Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry Cry

Shooting with the Machariel now is going to feel like walking with one shoe on.

Just fit 6 guns if it bothers you so much...problem solved

Oderint Dum Metuant

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#651 - 2014-04-16 16:25:16 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

TrouserDeagle wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

TrouserDeagle wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

all of that is stupid. damage bonused cruise missiles are better in every way than range bonused torpedoes, and torpedoes are terrible anyway. lol @ ecm and repair drones.

If you are going to quote do not ignore the most important phrase

"The rest apart from the 25km range loss is dealable with, part of the quid pro quo."

it's actually about an 80km range loss, but you still shouldn't care about it. if you're going to play spaceships, don't be terrible at spaceships.

No a T2 dla is 25km range loss.
That equates to 80km max range skill.
if you're going to play spaceships, don't be terrible at spaceships.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

TrouserDeagle

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 1,293

#652 - 2014-04-16 16:27:41 UTC

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

TrouserDeagle wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

TrouserDeagle wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

all of that is stupid. damage bonused cruise missiles are better in every way than range bonused torpedoes, and torpedoes are terrible anyway. lol @ ecm and repair drones.

If you are going to quote do not ignore the most important phrase

"The rest apart from the 25km range loss is dealable with, part of the quid pro quo."

it's actually about an 80km range loss, but you still shouldn't care about it. if you're going to play spaceships, don't be terrible at spaceships.

No a T2 dla is 25km range loss.
That equates to 80km max range skill.
I will not reply to the insult part.

drone range? I thought we were talking about missile range. what sort of laughable rattlesnake are you running that has 2 drone link augs?

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#653 - 2014-04-16 16:32:08 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

TrouserDeagle wrote:

*stuff*

drone range? I thought we were talking about missile range. what sort of laughable rattlesnake are you running that has 2 drone link augs?

One that uses drones? Or are you fitting a drone boat for missile damage currently? It is not the best ship for you if your drone skills are weaker than your missile skills.

The rattlesnake is a hybrid with an emphasis on drones, If the drone control range is given a 25km bonus, to balance the effective loss of a high slot DLA,then there is a valid choice to fit for either drone damage as the primary system or missiles as the primary system.

A choice.

Choice is good.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

TrouserDeagle

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 1,293

#654 - 2014-04-16 16:37:40 UTC

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

TrouserDeagle wrote:

*stuff*

drone range? I thought we were talking about missile range. what sort of laughable rattlesnake are you running that has 2 drone link augs?

One that uses drones? Or are you fitting a drone boat for missile damage currently? It is not the best ship for you if your drone skills are weaker than your missile skills.

The rattlesnake is a hybrid with an emphasis on drones, If the drone control range is given a 25km bonus, then there is a valid choice to fit for either drone damage as the primary system or missiles as the primary system.

A choice.

Choice is good.

if you really want to turn your summer 50/50 missile/drone rattlesnake into a worse one for your (lol) highsec missions or whatever, consider taking all the launchers off for drone links. with 2, it'll still be better than the current one, since a 50% damage bonus is better than a 50% velocity bonus, even if you don't fit all your launchers.

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#655 - 2014-04-16 16:38:53 UTC

Surely I can't be the only one sick of drones? The last 6 months have been drones, drones and more drones in one form or another. We get 3 new drone-based ships... a drone module update... a complete drone overhaul (pending)... new mid and low drone modules (pending)... and now 3 more re-designed drone-based ships (also pending). F**k drones already...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Ahernar

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 5

#656 - 2014-04-16 16:40:30 UTC

wrote:

drone range? I thought we were talking about missile range. what sort of laughable rattlesnake are you running that has 2 drone link augs?

The one that can shoot after making a mjd jump? Not everyone stays in the middle of a sanctum , FYI .

Btw - as it is the current version is very viable for PVE in null . Not so as a mission runner and even less in pvp .

TrouserDeagle

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 1,293

#657 - 2014-04-16 16:40:44 UTC

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

sick of sentry drones. since combat drones have been awful this whole time, and will continue to be awful after their 40% speed buff or whatever, I'm not sick of them.

TrouserDeagle

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 1,293

#658 - 2014-04-16 16:41:33 UTC

Ahernar wrote:

wrote:

drone range? I thought we were talking about missile range. what sort of laughable rattlesnake are you running that has 2 drone link augs?

ahahaha pve

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#659 - 2014-04-16 16:44:08 UTC | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Actually Arthur, a good point, the beauty of this ship is that (assuming 25km drone range bonus) this new rattlesnake can be either a drone focused boat, or a primarily missile firing boat, with drone assist. Or a bit of both, The way we fit the damage mods makes it one or the other. Nice to have the choice.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it being a pirate navy scorpion, that would be fun as well, but being as we are starting from a hybrid, probably best to make it a good pirate hybrid.

Tiny tweak and we are there, honestly, I can't see why this wasn't there in the beginning, would have saved a lot of typing.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Aralieus

Shadowbane Syndicate

Likes received: 301

#660 - 2014-04-16 16:47:43 UTC

Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:

epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat? Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

So what are you saying, that 5 unbonused light drones are suddenly unable to deal with a few frigates?

Not only will you be able to field a full flight of lights but lights that are boosted by 3x DDA's. I dont really see a problem here

Oderint Dum Metuant

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