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yes, its over
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Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#21 - 2011-12-01 16:28:31 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
Tippia wrote:
You know, if you are/were going to play the industry/market game, then maybe you should have taken the time to learn how supply, demand, and price-setting works… What?


apparently i was doing it wrong? I managed to provide ships to corpmates have fun on missions and play on plex, I think i spent my time wisely and understood the market. The point is, that it isnt fun any more, its a grind with limited profit potential in high sec and i have no interest in low sec drama. My remaining billions will go to some friends in another corp that are going to press on in spite of misgivings. so please, dont judge my skills at production and market process just because i no longer find the environment pleasing to work in


So...

You're bored.

How is that CCP's fault?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
RaTTuS
BIG
#22 - 2011-12-01 16:28:48 UTC
what part of MMO are you not getting ?

http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png http://i.imgur.com/kYLoKrM.png

Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#23 - 2011-12-01 16:29:09 UTC
One thing I would like to ask the OP, before he leaves, is this question:

If 'crafters' can produce in complete security what is their inherent value to the game as a whole that couldn't be provided by an NPC delivering a product to the "market" instead?

C.
leavwiz
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#24 - 2011-12-01 16:32:46 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I like how you dont even explain what the problem is.

perhaps my message wasnt clear.
EVE is no longer fun for casual players that choose to remain in high sec.
CCP has systematically removed content from high sec or facilitated game mechanics that make low sec / null sec or large fleet activities the primary focus.

The likelihood that a solo player or a few friends could truly operate a successful manufacturing or PI operation in high sec space is very slim. The concept is to have some fun not come to work every day.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#25 - 2011-12-01 16:35:23 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I like how you dont even explain what the problem is.

perhaps my message wasnt clear.
EVE is no longer fun for casual players that choose to remain in high sec.
CCP has systematically removed content from high sec or facilitated game mechanics that make low sec / null sec or large fleet activities the primary focus.

The likelihood that a solo player or a few friends could truly operate a successful manufacturing or PI operation in high sec space is very slim. The concept is to have some fun not come to work every day.


They've failed to realize that they can't take the sand out of people's sandbox and expect them to go play in the sandbox they choose. People will simply look at their empty box and go home.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-12-01 16:35:43 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I like how you dont even explain what the problem is.


Sure he did, it's all the other players. He's sitting in his little solo corp and wants to play EvE like a single, player market RPG.

The fact that EvE doesn't fit this carebear's desires is a really good thing. I for one hope CCP completely ignores cry babies like this.
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#27 - 2011-12-01 16:35:46 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I like how you dont even explain what the problem is.

perhaps my message wasnt clear.
EVE is no longer fun for casual players that choose to remain in high sec.
CCP has systematically removed content from high sec or facilitated game mechanics that make low sec / null sec or large fleet activities the primary focus.

The likelihood that a solo player or a few friends could truly operate a successful manufacturing or PI operation in high sec space is very slim. The concept is to have some fun not come to work every day.


That's weird, I play so casual I forget to log in most of the time and... I'm in high sec mostly. Stuff changes. Also, you DO realise that current PI product prices haven't adapted yet to the new increase in cost? If you wait it out a bit then the actual prices will go up and all will be well again.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#28 - 2011-12-01 16:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ana Vyr
Cailais wrote:
One thing I would like to ask the OP, before he leaves, is this question:

If 'crafters' can produce in complete security what is their inherent value to the game as a whole that couldn't be provided by an NPC delivering a product to the "market" instead?

C.


None, in your example, but you show me where you can produce in complete security.

Despite working primarily in high sec, we are still subject to market PvP, and for me at least, mining insecurity issues, and wardecs too.

The market will balance back out, certainly, but lowsec PI is now pretty much out of reach for folks like me, and it was a fun thing to do before Crucible because it was risky. Now, it's a case of either paying pirates taxes, or protecting your own POCO's, and for me anyways, neither of those options is going to fly.
Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#29 - 2011-12-01 16:36:51 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
[ My remaining billions



There's your problem.


Waaah I have billions and I can't turn a good profit... go do something else, be something else. go gank someone randomly.

Hell, go gank a ship that normally ganks others. Do it for lulz.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#30 - 2011-12-01 16:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
leavwiz wrote:
CCP has systematically removed content from high sec or facilitated game mechanics that make low sec / null sec or large fleet activities the primary focus.
The only content that has been removed is L5s, and that's because they were never supposed to be in highsec to begin with — it was a bugfix, not a nerf.

Everything else is still available to you, and all they're doing is adjusting the reward scheme to match the infinitesimal risks you choose by staying in highsec. It's called balance — it's needed to give the other parts of space a purpose. You can be just as casual as ever and have as much fun, because it's all still there.
Ingvar Angst wrote:
They've failed to realize that they can't take the sand out of people's sandbox and expect them to go play in the sandbox they choose.
Sure they have. That's why no sand is being removed.
leavwiz
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#31 - 2011-12-01 16:38:27 UTC
Cailais wrote:
One thing I would like to ask the OP, before he leaves, is this question:

If 'crafters' can produce in complete security what is their inherent value to the game as a whole that couldn't be provided by an NPC delivering a product to the "market" instead?

C.


perhaps CCP should consider having npc's provide everything so there is no need for people to derive enjoyment from the act of making things for other people. If the game was all about combat (which it wasnt when i started playing) then your question is valid. The fact that immense processes for BP's , production, resource gathering all tell me that CCP intended for this sphere to be part of the enjoyment of the game. In most worlds, crafters are admired for putting their skills into their craft at the expense of being adventurers. let the adventurers keep them safe and fight as they wish amongst themselves. We choose where to spend our skill points. Our inherent value is providing things to others in a timely fashion often in exchange for other things we need to do our work. I rather liked that aspect of the game.
Marcus Wilde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-12-01 16:40:48 UTC
This is a perfect example why upon starting the game, people need to GTFO of highsec ASAP. I dunno, but OP you understand that this is a PVP game right? And PI and all that other stuff is just for alts and for when you get bored!!! There's soo much to this game, and you're not experiencing it because you're probably too afraid to lose a few ships, makey uppey internet space ships for that matter! If only you had a pair, you'd be out pew pewing like a champ, and not crying over some change to the PI or whatever the hell else you people whinge about.


P.S. Bear Tears = Best TearsP

Tears + Bucket = Win
Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#33 - 2011-12-01 16:44:27 UTC
oh, by the way- taking your stuff to Jita and selling at the first buy order made another industrialist very happy. Maybe even a "solo" person who prior to that was just as dispondent.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#34 - 2011-12-01 16:44:31 UTC
Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I like how you dont even explain what the problem is.


Sure he did, it's all the other players. He's sitting in his little solo corp and wants to play EvE like a single, player market RPG.

The fact that EvE doesn't fit this carebear's desires is a really good thing. I for one hope CCP completely ignores cry babies like this.


I think, to be fair, that you're missing the point that Eve was meeting his "cearbear's desires" prior to this. CCP actually took an action that removed an area of the game he enjoyed.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
leavwiz
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#35 - 2011-12-01 16:45:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
leavwiz wrote:
CCP has systematically removed content from high sec or facilitated game mechanics that make low sec / null sec or large fleet activities the primary focus.
The only content that has been removed is L5s, and that's because they were never supposed to be in highsec to begin with — it was a bugfix, not a nerf.

Everything else is still available to you, and all they're doing is adjusting the reward scheme to match the infinitesimal risks you choose by staying in highsec. It's called balance — it's needed to give the other parts of space a purpose. You can be just as casual as ever and have as much fun, because it's all still there.


you are entitled to your opinion and yes, much is still available . calling the lvl 5 change a bugfix (after 2 years) instead of a nerf is just a ccp cop out. the same mechanic that assigns all other missions randomly puts missions in high or low sec . The only difference was the reward on the level 5's. Those missions were fun and challenging. They did not need heavy rewards, nor exposure to griefers to make them enjoyable in high sec. For those of us that never knew EVE without them, it was a take away.

the "balance" of which you speak appears to be forcing players into unused space. called Low Sec. It isnt fun, it isnt worth the ship losses to gate campers, there is no reason for a casual player to go there. forcing us to with game changes just says, we dont want you to play the way you did when we got you to buy the game in the first place.

I am fine with that, all i have said is i enjoyed the game. It is changing in ways that dont appeal to me or the people i used to play with. I just find it sad and wanted those who do read these forums to know that some of us actually care enough to comment and not just unusb.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2011-12-01 16:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
leavwiz wrote:
If the game was all about combat (which it wasnt when i started playing) then your question is valid.
Fun fact: the game is all about combat — it's what drives the war economy that you feed your stuff into. Without that combat, your activities would be pointless.
Quote:
let the adventurers keep them safe and fight as they wish amongst themselves.
See, that's the whole problem: you are a part of that fight. You are the one who's providing goods and services to someone's enemy, and thus you are a valid target for that someone to attack in whatever way they can. So you are not excluded from the “amongst themselves” part.
Quote:
calling the lvl 5 change a bugfix (after 2 years) instead of a nerf is just a ccp cop out. the same mechanic that assigns all other missions randomly puts missions in high or low sec .
You mean aside from the fact that it was an obvious bugfix because, you know, they were never meant to be available in highsec? That difference in rewards you're talking about? That's why they didn't belong. So no, it was not a cop-out — it was a fact. Don't let the time scale fool you; they've let far worse bugs linger for far longer, and the other level missions were not supposed to be excluded from certain parts of space, so no, it's not the same mechanic.
leavwiz
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#37 - 2011-12-01 16:48:34 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I like how you dont even explain what the problem is.


Sure he did, it's all the other players. He's sitting in his little solo corp and wants to play EvE like a single, player market RPG.

The fact that EvE doesn't fit this carebear's desires is a really good thing. I for one hope CCP completely ignores cry babies like this.


I think, to be fair, that you're missing the point that Eve was meeting his "cearbear's desires" prior to this. CCP actually took an action that removed an area of the game he enjoyed.


thanks, at least someone gets it. EVE was fun for people like me. The incursion, incarna , crucible expansions all say large and low sec is where we want you to play. Thats fine, the game isnt for me anymore. let those who enjoy the changes do so, but dont belittle the players that enjoyed what EVE offered for years for some of us.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-12-01 16:52:46 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
See, the principal problem with your statement is in the "limited profit potential." Sure, when you have hundred of billions profit is rather limited (unless you can get your hand on a T2 BPO, aka the isk blueprints), but otherwise profits in hi-sec are fantastic when you actually have some trading skill.


Confirming you know nothing about the T2 Manufacturing process

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-12-01 16:55:38 UTC
leavwiz wrote:

the "balance" of which you speak appears to be forcing players into unused space. called Low Sec. It isnt fun, it isnt worth the ship losses to gate campers, there is no reason for a casual player to go there. forcing us to with game changes just says, we dont want you to play the way you did when we got you to buy the game in the first place.


Losec isnt nearly as scary as you seem to think it is

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
mkint
#40 - 2011-12-01 16:56:12 UTC
OP does make a point. This patch is yet another patch conveying the message: "join a RMT alliance or get out." Buffs to RMTers, nerfs to everyone else. Any subs gained from this patch will be temporary. People don't quit over minor quibbling annoyances. People quit because they realize there is no future for them in the game. If the game has no future for the players, the game itself has no future.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.