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No More High Sec Manufacturing?

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GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#41 - 2014-04-15 19:17:44 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Nolen Cadmar wrote:
Thibault Etienne wrote:

Come on CCP. I hope you really aint thinking of making hi sec manufacturing less efficient. It makes no sense.

I hope they do exactly that....Risk vs Reward. Highsec = low risk, so low reward. Lowsec=higher risk, therefore higher reward.


Makes perfect sense, that is why the most profitable manufacturing in the world is done in Somalia...

Yes, but if you were able to manufacture in Somalia, it would be more profitable in the US as you wouldn't have to pay any tax. You'd just need to hire a private army to take care of the pirates. Quite a fitting example when relating this to eve I think.


"If you could"....you mean like if you could elect someone to a group of representatives and have them fly to Iceland and **** and moan to CCP until manufacturing in Somalia was more feasible than in the United States? lol
Volar Kang
Kang Industrial
#42 - 2014-04-15 19:22:06 UTC
So what will this mean for capital production? With BPO's being IN the POS now, will we be seeing some null-sec builders getting out of the cap business? Its bad enough that if you lose your system you can lose access to your BPO's in a station but sitting hundreds of billions worth of them in a POS in null... thats scary. Imagine how much the spy game will increase as null spies try and discover the locations of building POS's so they can drop in and grab some juicy BPO's...
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#43 - 2014-04-15 19:23:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
In that case, a lowsec station without that surcharge would obviously inherently give you a 12% margin, which is very compelling.


This is until cargo starts getting lost to gate camps and pirates. That will eat into that 12% real quick.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2014-04-15 19:39:00 UTC
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
"If you could"....you mean like if you could elect someone to a group of representatives and have them fly to Iceland and **** and moan to CCP until manufacturing in Somalia was more feasible than in the United States? lol


comparing 0.0 to Somalia is stupid but expected of those who have never experienced anything in eve beyond the veldspar belt

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2014-04-15 19:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Shizuken wrote:
Tippia wrote:
In that case, a lowsec station without that surcharge would obviously inherently give you a 12% margin, which is very compelling.

This is until cargo starts getting lost to gate camps and pirates. That will eat into that 12% real quick.

Oh sure, but at least with that kind of margin, there would be something to eat into that doesn't even exist right now. Of course, the margin won't be that high but then again, gate camps and pirates are fairly easy to avoid as well so I suppose it evens out. P

Volar Kang wrote:
So what will this mean for capital production? With BPO's being IN the POS now, will we be seeing some null-sec builders getting out of the cap business? Its bad enough that if you lose your system you can lose access to your BPO's in a station but sitting hundreds of billions worth of them in a POS in null... thats scary. Imagine how much the spy game will increase as null spies try and discover the locations of building POS's so they can drop in and grab some juicy BPO's...

What will happen is that they keep the BPOs in a station and just produce copies to manufacture from. It'll introduce a slight delay in the process, but that's it.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#46 - 2014-04-15 19:44:24 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I imagine that mfg slot costs in high are going up anywhere between 1,000 and 10,000 times over existing costs, for any system within 15 jumps of a trade hub. That includes low sec as well.

If it takes a little over 500 million ISK / month right now to run a large POS, you can bet that to run the same amount of research / mfg slots as in an NPC station will be closer to a billion when the dust settles. Of course, in null sec, the same amount of slots will be a tiny fraction of that. Of course, finding a POS location in high sec will become more than problematic anyway.

Quoted for posterity.

While "imagine" is the right word at this point, at least for once these are statements we'll be able to measure the accuracy of, not too far into the future.

So let's see what happens and whether you are correct. I'll predict you're not.


We will indeed see.
If this 14% cap is what CCP is serious about, does that mean it will cost 20 million for one slot to build a BS?
And if min prices will rise as these changes demand, does that mean maybe 30 or 40 million?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2014-04-15 19:51:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
We will indeed see.
If this 14% cap is what CCP is serious about, does that mean it will cost 20 million for one slot to build a BS?
And if min prices will rise as these changes demand, does that mean maybe 30 or 40 million?

There's nothing in these changes that demands a 50–100% increase in mineral prices.
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#48 - 2014-04-15 19:58:42 UTC
I don't mind more people move to low sec and null sec deserts and make more profit than a high sec player.Why someone who risks jumping transferring etc have same profit with someone that is abusing a high sec station with many many runs?

I really like what manufacturing is going to be and how more fun and fair CCP is making it.

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#49 - 2014-04-15 19:58:48 UTC
I would imagine that the cost scale is similar to corp office where some stations have rather astronomical rents compared to a price next door but low sec by default will have better costs for industry after this change.
Though if there's a sudden rush to low sec stations this might change.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-04-15 20:05:43 UTC
Highsec is now reaping what it had sowed.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2014-04-15 20:05:45 UTC
Baneken wrote:
I would imagine that the cost scale is similar to corp office where some stations have rather astronomical rents compared to a price next door but low sec by default will have better costs for industry after this change.
Though if there's a sudden rush to low sec stations this might change.

It may be similar, yes, but you should't expect them to behave all that much the same. The corp office mechanic depends on filling up a finite (and low) number of slots for a month and have a daily increase depending on how close it is to max. It can also increase infinitely. The industry congestion charge works almost the exact opposite way: with infinite slots that can take up anywhere from 2 minutes to 30 days and where the fee is capped. It's going to have to be a lot more dynamic than office rentals to match the purpose of the whole design.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-04-15 20:08:34 UTC
Volar Kang wrote:
So what will this mean for capital production? With BPO's being IN the POS now, will we be seeing some null-sec builders getting out of the cap business? Its bad enough that if you lose your system you can lose access to your BPO's in a station but sitting hundreds of billions worth of them in a POS in null... thats scary. Imagine how much the spy game will increase as null spies try and discover the locations of building POS's so they can drop in and grab some juicy BPO's...


Nobody will put capital/supercapital BPOs in XLSAAs/CSAAs, they'll use BPCs.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Steijn
Quay Industries
#53 - 2014-04-15 20:15:38 UTC
Quote:
Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.


Thats probably the straw that broke the camels back for me.
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#54 - 2014-04-15 20:22:06 UTC
Torrinos will take over from Jita as main trade hub.

Good news!
Dealth Striker
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-04-15 20:27:18 UTC
They really have to let us remap our skills

With all these major changes it really affects one's play style.
They are making some skills less desirable and others more desirable.
Striker Out!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#56 - 2014-04-15 20:28:59 UTC
Dealth Striker wrote:
They really have to let us remap our skills

With all these major changes it really affects one's play style.
They are making some skills less desirable and others more desirable.

No, they really don't.
If something is more desirable than before, just train for it.
Sturmwolke
#57 - 2014-04-15 20:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Steijn wrote:
Quote:
Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.


Thats probably the straw that broke the camels back for me.

Depends on the pricing and BPC copy time changes. It may be an entirely plausible business model to ditch the POS altogether if the differences don't exceed the monthly fuel costs.
Unlikely however, given that running a POS must mean something ... so ...
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#58 - 2014-04-15 20:30:09 UTC
Egravant Alduin wrote:
I don't mind more people move to low sec and null sec deserts and make more profit than a high sec player.Why someone who risks jumping transferring etc have same profit with someone that is abusing a high sec station with many many runs?

I really like what manufacturing is going to be and how more fun and fair CCP is making it.


You were doing fine and then you had to say, "abusing a high sec station". Taking advantage of a feature is not abusing it.

It's not that hard for even a stupid person to hide their bias. So what does that make you?

Mr Epeen Cool
Kaius Fero
#59 - 2014-04-15 20:30:13 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Nolen Cadmar wrote:
Thibault Etienne wrote:

Come on CCP. I hope you really aint thinking of making hi sec manufacturing less efficient. It makes no sense.

I hope they do exactly that....Risk vs Reward. Highsec = low risk, so low reward. Lowsec=higher risk, therefore higher reward.


Makes perfect sense, that is why the most profitable manufacturing in the world is done in Somalia...

Yes, but if you were able to manufacture in Somalia, it would be more profitable than in the US as you wouldn't have to pay any tax. You'd just need to hire a private army to take care of the pirates. Quite a fitting example when relating this to eve I think.

I would totally buy a 'made in somalia' chevy! I would also ban wall street from US to Somalia. Actually.. I would import somalia into US.. it's totally unfair how safe is US today, the land of carebears. Risk vs reward goes global!

Anselmo & The Illegals
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-04-15 20:31:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i like that the poses don't require absurd standings now, that's nice.


I sort of do as well, but what is going to happen if you want a moon and someone else has a POS there is this:

1) Pay 50mil to wardec corp owning POS;
2) Corp owning POS takes down their POS before war starts;
3) Corp owning POS jumps to new corp and throws up new POS at moon at the same time (2) is being completed;
4) Pay 50mil to wardec corp in step 3.
5) Give up on new moon.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."