Intergalactic Summit

How's that Blue Pill treating you?

What would a jaijii kakku understand about Caldari? After all I have said, I can conclude, that it is easier to teach slaver hound to talk, that to teach Ixiris to think.


I tried. Several times. Maybe even hundred. But with attitude like yours, it's better to just shoot in your direction bullets instead of trying to talk rationally. By trying to talk with you rationally, I feel each time, that I waste my time on you, like I would cast pearls before swines.


Can you do something ELSE maybe except insulting Caldari?
I don't know, scrubbing decks for example?


If I name Ixiris a violet-horned three-legged unicorn pet furrier with toilet flusher instead of the tail, will he become that?
What if he will be named so officially? By CEP? By his Senate maybe? Eh?..
Same will do they, you can show ignorance by calling them terrorists, but they won't become terrorists because you call them so.
Baka.


Probably for people who can read and understand.
So you can relax, it obviously wasn't for you.

Clearly more than you, since I've consistently been able to paint a more accurate picture of the legal and political situation in the Caldari State. You seem to operate more on wishful thinking and arguments to ideal circumstances than actual reality.

But specifically in response to the relevant issue - you claim your arguments are intended to appeal to other loyal Caldari patriots, but a quick observation of the IGS and the Summit indicates that the vast majority of other Caldari who participate in such discussions will, at the very best, politely disagree with you (and possibly do that discredited "I admire your dedication..." thing). Others refute you via less polite means, and others outright ignore you, but the simple summary of the matter is that other Caldari capsuleers aren't interested in your personal vision of the Caldari State. If you're trying to sway other people to your cause, it isn't working. From observation, if anything what you're doing is driving other Caldari away from you.


That's strange, since you've hidden from me like a coward every time you've had the opportunity to do so.


I wasn't insulting any Caldari. I was listing the people within the State who would fall under your definition of "complete idiot" - your definition being "anyone who declares Templis Dragonaurs terrorists." The CEP and the Caldari Navy fall under that definition on account of the fact that the CEP has classified the Templis Dragonaurs as terrorists. I don't think the CEP or the Caldari Navy are complete idiots. I think they demonstrated the exact opposite when they finally got dissolved the executor position and rid the Caldari State of Heth. But since they fall under your definition of "complete idiot," you clearly do.


I will graciously ignore your use of the straw man fallacy, and address the question reasonably.

If you were to name me a violet-horned three-legged unicorn pet furrier with a toilet flusher instead of a tail, it would mean nothing, since you have absolutely no authority whatsoever over me. If I were declared the same by the Senate or the CEP, it would also mean nothing, as the definition is legally meaningless and the Senate and the CEP have no direct authority over me either. If, however, I were declared a terrorist by the Senate or the CEP and charges filed against me, that's something that has actual legal weight, and the Senate or the CEP could legislate specific action be taken against me if I were to enter their respective territories. Capsuleers are quite often declared persona non grata in the hi-sec space of an empire they have seriously displeased, although the term "terrorist" is rarely used.

Since the CEP has legal authority to administrate Caldari space, they have legal authority to declare members of an organisation to be terrorists. They have officially done so in the case of the Templis Dragonaurs, and this legal authority allows them to order that action be taken against them by law enforcement or the military. The Templis Dragonaurs - and indeed yourself - can declare that they're not terrorists as much as they please, but such declarations are matters of personal opinion, not legal reality. The CEP have officially stated that the Templis Dragonaurs are terrorists, and so their definition is the only one that matters as far as State law is concerned.

If you don't like that, I suggest you make a personal appeal to the CEP - or failing that, leave the State.

Point accepted to an extent, but I wouldn't neccessarily classify Sansha's Nation as "successful" nationalisation...

"Nationalised" would indeed be a very strong (i.e. inaccurate) word for how Imperial corporations operate. "Theoretically independent but under fairly strict and constant supervision" is way more accurate. This isn't a criticisl, just an observation; it seems to work for them - or at least, it doesn't seem not to work.


I wouldn't actually go that far - we don't have much evidence but we can induce a few basic things about them. We know that they have corporations. We know the names of these corporations and have a rough idea of what they do. We know from the source of this afforementioned information that they have some reason to want to be part of the SCC registry. We know that some of these corporations operate both in and outside their territory.

We can be relatively assured, then, of the following: Jovians possess corporations that operate as those of other races do, thus they possess some concept of capitalism and thus either they possess some desire or neccessity for the accumulation of wealth, or else they possess an extremely compelling reason to want us to believe that they do. I for one lean somewhat towards the former; I'm not usually one to undervalue the lengths to which Jovians will go to deceive us, but I feel like even they would balk at the expense and effort of setting up a Potemkin economy.

It's funny that you constantly yell at your opponents for talking about people and cultures they "know nothing about," and then proceed to immediately talk about people and cultures you know little about.

Either way, the fact is that both of my statements - that you operate more on wishful thinking that on logic and reason, and that the majority of other Caldari capsuleers are not interested in your vision of the Caldari State - are pretty easily demonstrable. In the case of the former, you continue to use logical fallacies to defend your ideological positions, and you continue to make statements that are at odds with the reality of the State, such as "Tibus Heth is the State's greatest hero," when the CEP, the CBT and the megacorporations have explicitly denounced him. In the case of the latter, you simply need ask almost any Caldari capsuleer on the IGS other than TomHorn - some might still be willing to afford you basic respect despite the overwhelming disrespect you've afforded them, but I guarantee they won't be interested in the vision of the Caldari State you preach.


They say that when you have to raise your voice or throw profanities you've already lost the argument. I don't need that wisdom to know this, of course, but it's worth considering.

I sat outside the X-Sense Chemical Storage station in Yvangier for twenty minutes, clearly making my presence known in local and in The Summit, at which point you blocked my NeoCom frequency so that you could say you'd heard nothing. Spyra Gryra, in fact, happened to be present at the time, undocked in one of her sh ips and saw me outside the station, so she could corroborate this story. Furthermore she even provided a tiny bit of advice to me, stating that "fighting on station with a neutral repper is pretty much the only thing Diana Kim is good at."

I, of course, wouldn't know, since I've never seen you fight and given the weight of historical evidence, I probably never will.


You're conflating physical definitions with criminal charges. My CEO - who, incidentally, is an elder Achura who by your own logic you should treat with vastly more respect than you do - does not have the magical power to make me conform to any physical definition he wishes. However, if he declares me to no longer be worthy of the rank of Commander, he is completely within his power to demote me. If he has good reason to suspect me of being a corp thief, he is well within his rights to declare me a suspect. I, of course, can dispute these charges, or I can refuse to answer for them and flee.

Which one, in your opinion, would suggest a greater likelihood of me being a corp thief?

Heth and his minions in the CPD were called to answer for the murder of Admrial Yanala by the CEP. Instead of complying, they ran to a Caldari Constructions station, summoned several members of the Templis Dragonaurs (a recognised terrorist organisation that never officially ceased to hold that definition in the State), stole a number of capital ships and attempted to press-gang the station crew into service. These aren't even facts that are in dispute, as members of the CPD on the field at Haatomo openly spoke about doing it. They then attacked the Caldari Navy division sent to secure the site and the capsuleers who were assisting them.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, it's probably a terrorist.

Then come and do it, but we both know you don't have the spine or the skill to deal with me yourself. Here's what's going to happen: you're going to make another insulting post in response to this one that has no substantiative counterarguments, make some sort of excuse as to why you can't confront me yourself (even though locator agents can be found easily throughout empire space) and go back to sitting in a station in non-CEWPA Federation space with Mika Firestorm, your neutral logistics buddy, pretending that station games make you the god of combat.

Either that or you'll challenge another Civire to a fistfight and get laid out in the first ten seconds.


You haven't actually provided any evidence that what I've said is in any way false. In fact, you're responding almost exclusively with insults, disrespect and appeals to emotion, which even you must be able to see strengthen my point.

As for respect: I've repeatedly stated, Diana, that I have a lot of respect for a lot of Caldari. If I didn't, I wouldn't serve under the leadership of one. My best and oldest friend in the capsuleer community is a Civire. There are Gallente I respect, Intaki I respect, Jin-Mei, Mannar, Achura, Civire, Deteis, Amarr, Ni-Kunni, Khanid, Brutor, Sebiestor, Vherokior, Thukker, Krusual that I respect. In fact, right now, the majority of people for whom I have the most respect are Caldari.

I will start showing you respect when you start acting in a way that deserves it. My disrespect for you is not representative of my attitude towards everyone - it is purely representative of my attitude towards you. You are not my elder, you are not my ranking superior, you have not performed an altruistic deed for me or those whom I value and you most certainly do not excel me in knowledge of science, art or politics, so the only intrinsic reason I would have to respect you is the way in which you behave, and the way in which you behave to anyone who disagrees with you is utterly contemptible. You dishonour the State with your behaviour.

The very essence of Meritocracy. Diana Kim should take notes and emulate this attitude - It's a more Caldari one than she's ever expressed.

You aren't protecting anyone with your behaviour. You're intentionally and apparently gleefully attempting to prolong a war that consumes millions of Caldari lives every month, apparently because you'd rather spite the Federation than agree to any peace that doesn't fit your ludicrous standards.


You've repeatedly spread insults and lies about a vast number of people simply because they disagree with you or just so happen to be on the opposite side of the war. You also instantly claim any criticism or example of hypocricy is an insult or a lie, even though a large number of them can be easily substantiated.

If you didn't read the IGS for a year or so, you likely could say the same thing you just did and be truthful about it. IGS rarely has much of substance and is best seen as a form of entertainment and a secondary form of "people watching".

-Eran