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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#481 - 2014-04-15 11:44:54 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
this is the snake I would like to see:

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% missile velocity

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
7.5% missile damage

Role Bonus:
25% missile ROF


Slot layout: 8H, 7M, 5L; 0 turrets, 8 launchers(+4)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 200(-200)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

personally this feels allot more like the snake should be.


Fixed that for you. If you really want to get into what a Snake "Should" be, then it should be a pure missile boat. What the hell do Guristas have to do with Drones?

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#482 - 2014-04-15 11:50:10 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
this is the snake I would like to see:

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% missile velocity

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
7.5% missile damage

Role Bonus:
25% missile ROF


Slot layout: 8H, 7M, 5L; 0 turrets, 8 launchers(+4)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 200(-200)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

personally this feels allot more like the snake should be.


Fixed that for you. If you really want to get into what a Snake "Should" be, then it should be a pure missile boat. What the hell do Guristas have to do with Drones?


700 cruise dps before any BCS's or drones. dream on lol

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

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Naomi Anthar
#483 - 2014-04-15 11:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
gascanu wrote:

can you get that stick out of your a*s and READ what i posted? really, just read the post first;
rattlesnake have 19 slots and need to use 2 types of dmg mods, while mach or vindy have 20 slots and only need 1 type of dmg mods;( this is a problem connected with having a split weapos system and i was thinking that this is a thing of the past, but then CCP rebalanced the rattlesnake into this:split weapon system)

so, you can get the max dps out of an mach/vindy using 4 out of 20 slots, while on rattle you need to use 6 out of 19 slots; is that ballanced?

and about the "already working ship got even better": rattlesnake as it is right now in eve, is by far the worse pirate bs; hell it's not even in the same category with the other pirate bs, and that was why his selling price in jita was lower than many navy bs...



Nah i cannot get any stick out of my ass , because there is none to start with. I did read your post.(tho i admit it was waste of my time)
And your post makes 0 sence at all.

Just to explain why, because i'm not troll.
Lets take Armageddon navy issue - it can field 5 unbonused - but still 5 drones that actually are big part of it's dps. So by your logic this ship should also get more slots to get DDAs for those 5 sentries/heavies who are actually substantial part of its damage.

Now why ?

Listen rattlesnake is drone boat primarily. The missile damage is bonus.

But instead of being thankful about buffs, you are bitching out there. So maybe you try to get that stick out of your ass and think again before post.

Selling price of this ship was already discussed. And it is connected with supply - provided by CFC entities. Supply is huge so price is low. Stop being such fail please. That fact was even damn confirmed by people who supply you with those rattles.
Speaking of Prices - i once bought 2 tempest fleet issue for 300 mil (few months ago) ... because supply was high. Not because ship sucks balls. Because right now it sells for 100 and more milions more. And it did not receive any buffs. Can you believe or you are too dumb ?

Because it's not same case as with succubus/phantasm - that was completly not used for pve or pvp. Rattle saw usage in PvP fleets and very huge usage in PvE aswell.

Now you get even better ship - still for reasonable price - compared to other pirate BS. And you still complain. Not sure how to help people like you ...

EDIT : I also have 5 rattlesnakes 1 jump from jita. And another BPC for this ship. I'm really thankful for buffs and extra money in my wallet thanks to this. I'm not against buffs to ships. I'm against plain stupidity and making ships broken OP ****.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#484 - 2014-04-15 12:20:51 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
fudge, do i go for the 5th launcher or 100km drone control range? or do i squeeze a MJD on somewhere?

eve is hard...



Sad thing is, all you posted is the truth.

Any 'balance' discussion will eventually become distorted by posters who want to much and don't understand that for a game to be fun rather than a stale "press button= win" situation, there must be choices and trade offs.

Now Personally, however, if this game were just all about me, My Mach would have 30 slots, 10 guns (with 100% damage bonus), 8 built in warp stabs, be immune to bubbles and when it gets the final blow on another ship this would play on an infinite loop out fo their speakers even if they logged off. Be glad i am not a DEV....
El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#485 - 2014-04-15 12:30:51 UTC
Screw dropping a weapon and adding RoF bonus on mach, new changes are awesome and i think make it even more perfect for small gang guerilla tactics, besides, removing 1 turret slot and adding the bonus in RoF would have a negative effect on any artillery setups.

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Ahernar
Perkone
Caldari State
#486 - 2014-04-15 12:31:04 UTC
But have you drived them ? I have 2 and 2 nightmares and i know what pair is more effective . Rattlesnakes are good on paper but pretty laborious to use (drone aggro+missile time) , so much that maybe is half isk/effort vs other choices . One highslot will surely not make them OP but without it i'm going to go vargur for the non EM profile .
Btw - thanks CCP for the NM buff , wasn't really needed but i cannot complain :)
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#487 - 2014-04-15 12:33:23 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:


Just to explain why, because i'm not troll.
Lets take Armageddon navy issue - it can field 5 unbonused - but still 5 drones that actually are big part of it's dps. So by your logic this ship should also get more slots to get DDAs for those 5 sentries/heavies who are actually substantial part of its damage.

Now why ?


.


do you mean more slots beside those 8 low slots that the armagheddon navy issue already have?
or more slots beside those 20 total slots that geddon navy issue already have?

who is the troll here?
you are giving me as a counterexample a ship that already have max number of low slots and max number of total slots?
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#488 - 2014-04-15 12:42:19 UTC
I thought i would do a tl;dr for the thread.
some people can't do maths.
Some are upet because an asymmetric ship remains so.
Some are upset that they can't put 1000 ECM drones in their rattlesnake so they can run away.
Some people are flogging dead horses.
Others are reaching desperately for something to complain about.
Generally the not trolls and not stupid people are happy with the changes.
CCP Rise is being given enough Valium so he can face reading these feedback threads.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#489 - 2014-04-15 12:47:50 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Viribus wrote:
I like how people are praising the Machariel "buff" when really it's just being put back to where it was before the warp speed changes, minus 25 scan res and some agility.

I think most are just ecstatic the Machariel didn't get hit with the whiffle bat...


And the Vindicator. Especially after the Vigilant got knocked for a -150 PG.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Frayze Nissai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#490 - 2014-04-15 12:50:09 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I am amused at how people think the Rattler is getting better. Sure, the dps increase is nice, but they're forgetting the fact that with the new drone bonuses, It's completely vulnerable to getting kited It doesn't even have access to mediums, and while it's technically feasible to put rapid heavy launchers on it, that's entirely impractical as people will likely be using cruise missiles all the time, specifically in a pve setting. So basically if you get dropped on and the mission rats can't take them out, you're screwed.


I too, kite when I fight sentry boats with launcher hard points


^This....lol.

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Von Keigai
#491 - 2014-04-15 12:50:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Quote:
Please stop it with missile bonuses benefitting from Gallente skills.....

I wish there was a way to avoid it but there really isn't. If we put the drone damage bonus on the Gallente skill and put missile damage in the role bonus (as it was before) it would mean people were basically required to have level 5 of the Gallente skill to use the ship, which we don't want.

FIrst, I don't really see the problem with "requiring" level 5. Level 4 "only" gets you 1000 DPS? OK, train level 5.

But I'll grant that you think this is a requirement. OK. Then give a more modest drone damage boost that is tied to Gallente, along with a drone damage role bonus. If you want the total to be 2 drones*275%, then just twiddle the numbers 'til you get that.

For example:

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints
(or even: 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints

This gives the same 275% bonus at Gallente 5. At Gallente 4, it gets 250%.

vonkeigai.blogspot.com
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#492 - 2014-04-15 13:09:48 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

700 cruise dps before any BCS's or drones. dream on lol


Maybe replace the ROF bonus with a 25% explosion radius bonus, but the overall point still stands.

As much as I LOVE the new Rattle (compared to it's current form) I would LOVE LOVE LOVE it to be an 8 launcher 1500+ missile dps boat. (Think vindi, but with missiles and shield tanked)

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#493 - 2014-04-15 13:12:04 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Quote:
Please stop it with missile bonuses benefitting from Gallente skills.....

I wish there was a way to avoid it but there really isn't. If we put the drone damage bonus on the Gallente skill and put missile damage in the role bonus (as it was before) it would mean people were basically required to have level 5 of the Gallente skill to use the ship, which we don't want.


So, do I get this correct that you don't want specialization on one field to do and use things properly, but require it in other fields? Really? Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#494 - 2014-04-15 13:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Myrthiis wrote:
"chaosgrimm" wrote:
As I've said prior, its not about nerf/buff, its about increasing the number of differences between hulls.


If u one found one day a mach who can sustain 4734 defense omni during 10 m without implants and with t2 mod .I ll begin to think maybe u are right until then ...

Different isn't necessarily mean nerf / buff, and tank isn't the defining feature for other ships. They get more than that to make them unique. If we compare differences on the offensive side.

= Vindi v Kronos =
Vindi gets tracking, dps, web
Kronos gets tracking, dps, falloff
Offensively, these ships are unique in the way they are used as well as defensively.
The tradeoffs are interesting here on both sides of the spectrum. You get more speed and deeps on the vindi, but to apply it you gotta be closer to your target than the kronos, which is something to consider given the vindi's lighter tank.

= nm v Pally =
Nm gets tracking, dps
Pally gets falloff, dps
Again these weapon systems are use very differently. You have an offensive decision to make, do you want better applied dmg via the nm's tracking and speed, but at the expensive of a lighter tank + needing to be closer to the target.

= Mach v Vargur =
Mach gets dps, falloff
Vargur gets dps, tracking, falloff
On the offensive side, where is the decision here? The mach has higher dps. It doesn't need to risk being closer than the varg to apply it's dps. The biggest difference here is the tracking, which the mach adjusts for with its superior mobility. Furthermore, the mobility perks are great for a wep system that works in falloff. It would be nice if there were greater distinctions here. Perhaps the mach trading f/o for tracking + hull buffs.


Lastly:
CCP Rise wrote:

The biggest problem Angels face is direct competition with other Minmatar ships and a light case of OP.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#495 - 2014-04-15 13:15:34 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Viribus wrote:
Cheekything wrote:
I still think the Vindicator needs some separation from the Megathron Navy Issue in terms of roles they both seem to fit the same job but the Navy Mega at the current moment does it a bit better.

But it's nice to see the range has been made better that helps it being more useful for PVP and not just PVE.

Maybe increase the range a bit for for sniping.



aahahahah what the hell is this guy even talking about


He clearly belongs to actually not that small (as we can see in Vigilant/daredevil balance passes) group of people who think serpentis ships are garbage and get owned by t1 basic hulls.

They won't give up until DD will have 500% small hybrid damage bonus - because 200% clearly does not make it good.
With Vigilant something to get like 15 effective turrets. And with Vindi ... yeah serpentis clearly underpowered unless you can break 2000 dps barrier with it.


I saw a Vigilant once in Black Rise

but then it died

happy end
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#496 - 2014-04-15 13:19:02 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Viribus wrote:
I like how people are praising the Machariel "buff" when really it's just being put back to where it was before the warp speed changes, minus 25 scan res and some agility.

I think most are just ecstatic the Machariel didn't get hit with the whiffle bat...


And the Vindicator. Especially after the Vigilant got knocked for a -150 PG.


Not empty quoting.

I fully expected the Vindi to get slapped with a vicious PG nerf.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#497 - 2014-04-15 13:28:05 UTC
I really like them.Pirate battleships must be a line between navy battleships and marauders and they are really achieving that.Gratz to ccp.

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#498 - 2014-04-15 13:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Wolf
gascanu wrote:


so, you can get the max dps out of an mach/vindy using 4 out of 20 slots, while on rattle you need to use 6 out of 19 slots; is that ballanced?



Not really. Vindi takes 8 guns + 4 slots = 12 out of 20. Mach takes 7 + 4 = 11 out of 20. Rattle takes 5 + 6 = 11 out of 19.

Vindi has 8 slots left over, mach has 9, rattle has 8.

Seems balanced to me.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Radius Mac
Yarrr Corp
#499 - 2014-04-15 13:40:49 UTC
I usually don’t comment here on the forums but I felt compelled to voice my concerns with the proposed changes to the Guristas line of ships. As others have already mentioned shoehorning the hulls drone use just for the sake of differentiating them from Gallente drone boats just shows the lack of imagination of the balancing team. I’m not here to debate whether or not the proposed changes are nerfs of buffs as I feel that would depend on the situation. However I am strongly opposed to split weapon systems with bonuses to both on single hulls. In my opinion why not look at what each race (that of Caldari and Gallente) can offer to differentiate the ships. Perhaps a Gallente bonus to warp disruptor and scram range for example, rather than this missile rubbish.
Frayze Nissai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#500 - 2014-04-15 14:06:27 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
The more I think about it, the more the greatly reduced drone bay makes the Rattlesnake feel very limited. I won't even be able to fit salvage drones. I picked that ship for its large drone bay and now we are getting **** on because we got compromised on an utterly horrible idea turned into just a bad idea.

There is no good reason to remove anything from the rattlesnake. Rattlesnake users are just being screwed over unnecessarily.. There is no reason to remove the missile velocity bonus either. Why can't the Rattlesnake remain the versatile ship we trained for?

The overlap argument seems pretty weak since the only commonality between Guristas and Gallente is the use of drones. Everything else about Guristas is typical of Caldari.

The super drone idea is great but please don't ruin Guristas with it. Why not create new ships so you don't have to screw over a bunch of people with these drastic changes?


You have heard of a module called the Mobile Depot yes? The one that allows you to change modules AND DRONES whilst in space? Or are you arguing that you would use your salvage drones whilst still engaged?

I also fly an RS, i also chose it for its versatility. Do i feel screwed over by these new changes? Hell no, i have never been happier. I can now focus more on what is going on around me than on my 5 little guys HP bars, i can do significantlymore DPS, and with the mobile depot i keep a very high degree of versatility.

'I picked a ship with a large drone bay' - yes, one that at the time had a justifiably large bay as it needed to field 5 sentry drones (read 125 m3 of space) to put down maximum DPS. We now need to field 2 sentries (or 50m3) to do EXACTLY the same. So please, justify how we should keep a 400m3 drone bay???

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