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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Ragnen Delent
13.
#401 - 2014-04-15 00:34:14 UTC
SubStandard Rin wrote:

Im losing drone flexibility. And dont like it
I dont mind losing some dps to downscale to mediums
but not beeing able to limits My playstyle
Besides switching drones is always a dps penalty

So please increase dronebay On both gila and rattlesnake


Why do you feel entitled to having a ship that can be that flexible for little to no penalty? Selecting a specific ship inherently results in some inflexibility and choice of playstyle, why do you believe those choices should not apply here?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#402 - 2014-04-15 00:34:52 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

None of these will be possible while having 2 heavy/sentry flights now. The only thing being maintained regarding flexibility is a single configuration.


Honestly? Boo hoo. The ship is getting more than enough of a boost to make up for that.

Bottomless drone bays are a crutch anyway, they take away the element of choice consequence. Why bother thinking about whether you need ECM drones or a spare sentry if you can just load them all anyway?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#403 - 2014-04-15 00:35:58 UTC
Are you all ******** or am i doing my math after drinking bleach, its 2 heavies, 2 sentries, 1 medium flight and 1 light flight or 2 heavies 2 sentries and 3 flights of lights (which can include salvage drones) at 175 m3 of Drone Bay space.

OR

1 flight heavies 1 flight sentries 1 flight heavies 1 flight lights.

What in the world is there to complain about there, because in reality you're carrying 7.5 heavies and 7.5 sentries.


I feel like theres a lot of Rattlesnake pilots who have a poor understanding of math or vastly overestimate what they need to have on a Rattlesnake.

This is a ship redo, expecting your ship to stay the same is dumb

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#404 - 2014-04-15 00:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

None of these will be possible while having 2 heavy/sentry flights now. The only thing being maintained regarding flexibility is a single configuration.


Honestly? Boo hoo. The ship is getting more than enough of a boost to make up for that.

Bottomless drone bays are a crutch anyway, they take away the element of choice consequence. Why bother thinking about whether you need ECM drones or a spare sentry if you can just load them all anyway?
The ability to diversify drone types has been a strength of drones for as long as I can remember. Why are we suddenly pretending that's not a thing? Quite frankly we're getting nothing that directly addresses some of the disparities created between this and the other drone lines, which is fine since it's gaining in other places, but I'm not about to pretend this exchange doesn't exist to suit the egos of a few people who only use 2 or 3 drone types.

Grath Telkin wrote:
This is a ship redo, expecting your ship to stay the same is dumb
Great, so there should be no issue calling out people who are saying it is the same regarding flexibility.

Edit: Also, before I was able to carry 2 flights sentries, 1 meduim, 2 light and 1 salvage. That cannot be done now and didn't have the infinite drone replacement scenario Kaarous is complaining about.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#405 - 2014-04-15 00:46:22 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

None of these will be possible while having 2 heavy/sentry flights now. The only thing being maintained regarding flexibility is a single configuration.


Honestly? Boo hoo. The ship is getting more than enough of a boost to make up for that.

Bottomless drone bays are a crutch anyway, they take away the element of choice consequence. Why bother thinking about whether you need ECM drones or a spare sentry if you can just load them all anyway?
The ability to diversify drone types has been a strength of drones for as long as I can remember. Why are we suddenly pretending that's not a thing? Quite frankly we're getting nothing that directly addresses some of the disparities created between this and the other drone lines, which is fine since it's gaining in other places, but I'm not about to pretend this exchange doesn't exist to suit the egos of a few people who only use 2 or 3 drone types.


How are you not retaining a diverse selection of drones?

Like honest question, because the 175mb of drone space when you only need 2 of each large type sure does seem like a pretty decent amount of play room

Crying because the ships not the exact same as it is now seems really silly when its actually getting more DPS out of the deal, you're diverse, just not as 'throw whatever in' as it is now.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#406 - 2014-04-15 00:54:06 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

None of these will be possible while having 2 heavy/sentry flights now. The only thing being maintained regarding flexibility is a single configuration.


Honestly? Boo hoo. The ship is getting more than enough of a boost to make up for that.

Bottomless drone bays are a crutch anyway, they take away the element of choice consequence. Why bother thinking about whether you need ECM drones or a spare sentry if you can just load them all anyway?
The ability to diversify drone types has been a strength of drones for as long as I can remember. Why are we suddenly pretending that's not a thing? Quite frankly we're getting nothing that directly addresses some of the disparities created between this and the other drone lines, which is fine since it's gaining in other places, but I'm not about to pretend this exchange doesn't exist to suit the egos of a few people who only use 2 or 3 drone types.


How are you not retaining a diverse selection of drones?

Like honest question, because the 175mb of drone space when you only need 2 of each large type sure does seem like a pretty decent amount of play room

Crying because the ships not the exact same as it is now seems really silly when its actually getting more DPS out of the deal, you're diverse, just not as 'throw whatever in' as it is now.
Edit above to address a specific scenario. Personally I'm not affected. I fly a 1 heavy flight, 2 sentry flight, 1 light flight (loss of 2.5 effective lights notwithstanding) drone bay in my RS. But the fact remains that any time I drop a heavy set for a greater variety of lights or mediums and I had a full bay before, I won't be able to do it now.

And again, I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but pretending it's not happening isn't accurate.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#407 - 2014-04-15 00:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Price speculation on Rattlesnakes I can see, but the Nestor? Are sellers on crack?! Does anyone actually fly these or do the "sales" simply disguise trades in an attempt to artificially jack-up the price. The irony here is that Goons probably figured they would be able to make out like bandits… It's not too soon to reexamine the role of the Nestor.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#408 - 2014-04-15 01:00:02 UTC
Ragnen Delent wrote:
SubStandard Rin wrote:

Im losing drone flexibility. And dont like it
I dont mind losing some dps to downscale to mediums
but not beeing able to limits My playstyle
Besides switching drones is always a dps penalty

So please increase dronebay On both gila and rattlesnake


Why do you feel entitled to having a ship that can be that flexible for little to no penalty? Selecting a specific ship inherently results in some inflexibility and choice of playstyle, why do you believe those choices should not apply here?

By this logic, one might reason that other drone ships aside from this line are flawed due to their ability to mix in smaller types for proportionally far less bay allocation. Do you actually feel that way? Or do you feel the RS is specifically imbalanced in some way by allowing unbonused drone flights?

Just following a hypothetical here based on the reasoning, not a critique on the balance, pardon the off topic nature of the post please.
PopplerRo
#409 - 2014-04-15 01:01:50 UTC
Some pretty nice changes particularly the extra lock range for the vindi Big smile .

Still a bit disappoint that the Nightmare AB bonus is a skilled one, would have rather the AB bonus be the role bonus and leave the damage one being altered by skill level
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#410 - 2014-04-15 01:06:00 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

None of these will be possible while having 2 heavy/sentry flights now. The only thing being maintained regarding flexibility is a single configuration.


Honestly? Boo hoo. The ship is getting more than enough of a boost to make up for that.

Bottomless drone bays are a crutch anyway, they take away the element of choice consequence. Why bother thinking about whether you need ECM drones or a spare sentry if you can just load them all anyway?
The ability to diversify drone types has been a strength of drones for as long as I can remember. Why are we suddenly pretending that's not a thing? Quite frankly we're getting nothing that directly addresses some of the disparities created between this and the other drone lines, which is fine since it's gaining in other places, but I'm not about to pretend this exchange doesn't exist to suit the egos of a few people who only use 2 or 3 drone types.


How are you not retaining a diverse selection of drones?

Like honest question, because the 175mb of drone space when you only need 2 of each large type sure does seem like a pretty decent amount of play room

Crying because the ships not the exact same as it is now seems really silly when its actually getting more DPS out of the deal, you're diverse, just not as 'throw whatever in' as it is now.
Edit above to address a specific scenario. Personally I'm not affected. I fly a 1 heavy flight, 2 sentry flight, 1 light flight (loss of 2.5 effective lights notwithstanding) drone bay in my RS. But the fact remains that any time I drop a heavy set for a greater variety of lights or mediums and I had a full bay before, I won't be able to do it now.

And again, I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but pretending it's not happening isn't accurate.


Ok that makes more sense

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
stoicfaux
#411 - 2014-04-15 01:09:03 UTC
So the Rattlesnake's super-drones aren't that super after all. /mixed_feelings.


As for PvE fitting, let's see: 6 damage mods filling the lows. In the mids, 2-3 Omnis, 1-2 TPs, 1 prop mod (AB/MWD/MJD) and a 2-3 slot tank. Five launchers in the high and 1 drone range extender in the highs. Three rigor rigs.

~800 DPS with Fury, 570 DPS with T1 missiles when using kin/therm. Drones will do less than ~700 DPS after summer sentry nerf and will be capped at 80km due to lack of highslots for DLAs. However, summer faction drone modules may improve things somewhat.


Soo.... at close range, sentries will have tracking issues thus encouraging long range use, but, the 80km drone control range limit hurts that, and slow moving missiles at long range suffer from DPS loss to volley counting, to NPC defenders, and to TP falloff.

Or at close range the missiles and TPs will be rocking-ish, but the sentries will have trouble tracking.


Bleepity bleep beep. The Rattlesnake is now even more of a walking contradiction.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#412 - 2014-04-15 01:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gavin Dax
Darius Caliente wrote:
Has any thought been given to the nerf to Rattlesnake (and it's smaller companions) when considering utility drones. Can we perhaps get the same percentage buff given across all drone classes?

Example:
2 x EC-900 == weak
5 x EC-900 == Fighting Chance
2 x EC-900 * 275% == Fighting Chance

The same holds true for logi drones, web drones, target painter drones, etc. In fact, with the increased missile damage, target painter drones may be useful to the Rattlesnake if they get the same boost.


This. I'm a bit surprised none of these ships have bonuses to ewar drones (non-ec drones anyway). It seems those are in a weird place right now, and having some ships bonused for them (whether the RS, Gila or some other, even non-drone-boat ship) might help with that.

Also, the Gila only able to use 4 light drones (with no bonus, which it had before) doesn't seem right when a Stabber and a Rupture can use 5 light drones.

It also will no longer be as effective to recall your drones if they are being aggressed in PvP. Now instead of reducing your damage to 4/5, you reduce it by 50% (in the case of heavies/sentry for the RS).
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#413 - 2014-04-15 01:14:43 UTC
There really is no need to use a second DLA on the RS now (and has been so after the omni changes). If you want sentries that hit out to 100km, you get a hull that has a range bonus (or fit a rig together with 1 DLA). The fifth launcher is a lot more important for the hull now.

Essentially, the RS now is an improved split weapon navy phoon, with a resistance bonus to boot. Really sweet.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#414 - 2014-04-15 01:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Bertrand Butler wrote:
There really is no need to use a second DLA on the RS now (and has been so after the omni changes). If you want sentries that hit out to 100km, you get a hull that has a range bonus (or fit a rig together with 1 DLA). The fifth launcher is a lot more important for the hull now.

Essentially, the RS now is an improved split weapon navy phoon, with a resistance bonus to boot. Really sweet.


Actually come summer all you need to do is use Wardens or Bouncers and you will easily be in the 90-100km (OP+Falloff) range without support mods or bonused hulls.
Viribus
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#415 - 2014-04-15 01:21:36 UTC
I like how people are praising the Machariel "buff" when really it's just being put back to where it was before the warp speed changes, minus 25 scan res and some agility.

Can we get something unique from the Angel ships pls, instead of them just being upgrades/sidegrades/downgrades of existing Minmatar ships

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#416 - 2014-04-15 01:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Quote:
Actually come summer all you need to do is use Wardens or Bouncers and you will easily be in the 90-100km (OP+Falloff) range without support mods or bonused hulls.


Well, yes. What I am trying to explain is that you do not use the RS as a domi now. Its a full fledged missile/drone ship now. Just focusing on the drones will actually hurt you.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#417 - 2014-04-15 01:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Viribus wrote:
I like how people are praising the Machariel "buff" when really it's just being put back to where it was before the warp speed changes, minus 25 scan res and some agility.

Can we get something unique from the Angel ships pls, instead of them just being upgrades/sidegrades/downgrades of existing Minmatar ships


How about add a utility high and no cloak lock delay so they can lie in wait and spring traps like bosses?

Fits with the chemoras.
idk, just speculating

Edit: I do agree, making them just the same as they were pre-rubicon is hardly a huge and unique role but I am holding out hope that post-ruibicon, the warp speed bonus will make them stand out.

I mean, it isn't as awesome as super nos' or super webs but I just don't want them to get nerved to ****.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Viribus
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#418 - 2014-04-15 01:29:37 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Viribus wrote:
I like how people are praising the Machariel "buff" when really it's just being put back to where it was before the warp speed changes, minus 25 scan res and some agility.

Can we get something unique from the Angel ships pls, instead of them just being upgrades/sidegrades/downgrades of existing Minmatar ships


How about add a utility high and no cloak lock delay so they can lie in wait and spring traps like bosses?

Fits with the chemoras.
idk, just speculating


Rise doesn't want to give the Angel ships unique bonuses because he thinks they're powerful enough already









They're not

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#419 - 2014-04-15 01:35:22 UTC
Viribus wrote:


Rise doesn't want to give the Angel ships unique bonuses because he thinks they're powerful enough already

They're not


Completely agree.
When they were good they were so good that ccp was scarred for life apparently. Projectiles and TE's and nanos man.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Viribus
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#420 - 2014-04-15 01:36:17 UTC
And T1 cruisers and HACs and Interceptors and Frigs all got buffed to hell and back

watch me be a scurb and get owned