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N3 Video of Exploit to Gank CFC Titan

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PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2014-04-14 21:02:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Velocity can be achieved if part of the titan was sticking out of the POS shield and bumbed when Titans jumped in.
Or, more likely, it was not sticking out and they deliberately picked an otherwise unnecessarily close point to the POS to jump to.

Guys, guys, don't cyno in too close to the hostile pos, its unnecessary! Nevermind other considerations in the heat of battle, our enemies might get upset. That should clearly be everyone's #1 priority when dropping carriers, dreads, supers or titans on a hostile tower in a dangerous situation: not to ruffle anyone's feathers.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#62 - 2014-04-14 21:02:45 UTC
I do love these threads. Any time an exploit is used, people throw their arms in the air screaming for justice, unless the victim of the exploit was goons, then suddenly everyone's supporting exploits.

Stop being pathetic. Exploits are exploits, regardless of who it was done by or to.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Generic5Guy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2014-04-14 21:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Generic5Guy
Doc Fury wrote:
Only CCP knows what happened for sure, but after reading some of the replies I'mma going to guess that this was petitioned and is being brought to the General Drama forums only because CCPs answer was not well received.




I don't know why everyone is whining about this being posted. I just thought it was interesting that the video was posted.

PotatoOverdose wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Velocity can be achieved if part of the titan was sticking out of the POS shield and bumbed when Titans jumped in.
Or, more likely, it was not sticking out and they deliberately picked an otherwise unnecessarily close point to the POS to jump to.

Guys, guys, don't cyno in too close to the hostile pos, its unnecessary! Nevermind other considerations in the heat of battle, our enemies might get upset. That should clearly be everyone's #1 priority when dropping carriers, dreads, supers or titans on a hostile tower in a dangerous situation: not to ruffle anyone's feathers.


The intensity, the "heat of battle" in dropping an afk Titan must be unmatchable. How were they even able to keep their hands on the keyboard in combat so intense.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#64 - 2014-04-14 21:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Lucas Kell wrote:
I do love these threads. Any time an exploit is used, people throw their arms in the air screaming for justice, unless the victim of the exploit was goons, then suddenly everyone's supporting exploits.

Stop being pathetic. Exploits are exploits, regardless of who it was done by or to.

So, we know for a fact then that an exploit was used, rather than say a part of a fat-ass titan was sticking out of the shield?

I assume you have logs that confirm this?

Edit: Also, for the record, I point and laugh at PL/NC. losses as much as I do for Goons. My badpoasting record speaks for itself, TYVM.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#65 - 2014-04-14 21:04:52 UTC
voetius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Varesk wrote:
You cant see anything in that video that would remotely be called an exploit.
…aside from an otherwise impossible velocity on a ship that can only ever really be achieved through warp- or cyno-bumping, and which just so happens to coincide with a very well-known exploit to reach through POS shields.


Velocity can be achieved if part of the titan was sticking out of the POS shield and bumbed when Titans jumped in. Which is what happened here. No exploits no loop holes, just an unlucky Titan pilot that was to close to the edge of the POS shields.

yes you can be in the pos and part of your titan will still stick out, hence why he was bumped at over 1k.

Please dont let facts stop the crying about exploits and how CFC should never lose a Titan due to pilot error.


CCP deemed capital pos bowling using this method an exploit something like 8 years ago. Now, if CCP are now going to allow this then be sure we will also start doing this.


Really? It's kind of ironic then that I first learnt about POS bowling when I was in the CFC a few years back. This was at the time of the Fountain war to evict BoB. We were dicking around in Fountain and the BoB pets were all POS'ed up when Vee said on comms that he would show us how POS bowling worked, at which my little ears perked up.

He had got hold of the POS passwords through spies and we landed in the centre of a red POS. I think the idea was that we would either bump the BoB pets out or they would change the password to eject us out at high speed which would have a small chance of us colliding with the enemy ships and bumping them out at high speed.

It was all fascinating stuff :)


Thats not the pos bowling of old. We are talking about not having the PW and bumping people out.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#66 - 2014-04-14 21:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
voetius wrote:
We were dicking around in Fountain and the BoB pets were all POS'ed up when Vee said on comms that he would show us how POS bowling worked, at which my little ears perked up.

He had got hold of the POS passwords
…and at that point, it's no longer POS bowling — just good old bumping.

PotatoOverdose wrote:
Guys, guys, don't cyno in too close to the hostile pos, its unnecessary! Nevermind other considerations in the heat of battle, our enemies might get upset.
It has nothing to do with making people upset. It has to do with risking your own ships and your own accounts for no good reasons. Also, there's a distinct lack of heat of battle here.

Quote:
So, we know for a fact then that an exploit was used, rather than say a part of a fat-ass titan was sticking out of the shield?
If it was just sticking out, they should have — and could have — killed it. For some odd reason, they didn't, most likely because they couldn't. If it wasn't already killable, then it was indeed an exploit.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#67 - 2014-04-14 21:06:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Only CCP knows what happened for sure, but after reading some of the replies I'mma going to guess that this was petitioned and is being brought to the General Drama forums only because CCPs answer was not well received.

Entirely possible. It doesn't make the video (and in particular its edit) any less suspect though.


Suspect, agreed.. It's too bad the (potentially) incriminating part seems to be missing.











☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#68 - 2014-04-14 21:06:38 UTC
voetius wrote:
Really? It's kind of ironic then that I first learnt about POS bowling when I was in the CFC a few years back. This was at the time of the Fountain war to evict BoB. We were dicking around in Fountain and the BoB pets were all POS'ed up when Vee said on comms that he would show us how POS bowling worked, at which my little ears perked up.

He had got hold of the POS passwords through spies and we landed in the centre of a red POS. I think the idea was that we would either bump the BoB pets out or they would change the password to eject us out at high speed which would have a small chance of us colliding with the enemy ships and bumping them out at high speed.

It was all fascinating stuff :)
That's actually a different case. If you have the POS password and can get into the POS you are allowed to bump any ships out of it you want to. This situation is where you use a flaw in jump mechanics to cause you to bump a ship through a POS shield without knowing the password to it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-04-14 21:07:12 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Generic5Guy wrote:
And you see that the Titan's just cyno'd and bumped because they are moving 1.1km/s.

I didn't see the Titans cyno in and bump the Titan.

I see the Titans bouncing away from each other.

To quote K.com: "Did Vee get his Titan back yet?"


Aww, look at you getting in on the third floor on a only slightly-used Don Peyote meme, you must be so proud.

You just missed the chance to use the good old "I'm no big city lawyer" shtick. Had you hit that you too, you might have made it in to the cool gang. Next time for sure buddy, give it your best, we're rooting for you Smile.
Magnus Cortex
Ginger Industrial Solutions
#70 - 2014-04-14 21:07:44 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Velocity can be achieved if part of the titan was sticking out of the POS shield and bumbed when Titans jumped in.
Or, more likely, it was not sticking out and they deliberately picked an otherwise unnecessarily close point to the POS to jump to.

Guys, guys, don't cyno in too close to the hostile pos, its unnecessary! Nevermind other considerations in the heat of battle, our enemies might get upset. That should clearly be everyone's #1 priority when dropping carriers, dreads, supers or titans on a hostile tower in a dangerous situation: not to ruffle anyone's feathers.


Titans can DD from 150km why did they jump in as close to the pos as possible?
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#71 - 2014-04-14 21:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Tippia wrote:

PotatoOverdose wrote:
Guys, guys, don't cyno in too close to the hostile pos, its unnecessary! Nevermind other considerations in the heat of battle, our enemies might get upset.
It has nothing to do with making people upset. It has to do with risking your own ships and your own accounts for no good reasons. Also, there's a distinct lack of heat of battle here.

Eh, whenever Titans are involved, everything is 1 cyno away from a major clusterfuck, especially given the alliances involved.

That risk is enough of an element of "heat", IMO.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#72 - 2014-04-14 21:08:47 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I do love these threads. Any time an exploit is used, people throw their arms in the air screaming for justice, unless the victim of the exploit was goons, then suddenly everyone's supporting exploits.

Stop being pathetic. Exploits are exploits, regardless of who it was done by or to.
So, we know for a fact then that an exploit was used, rather than say a part of a fat-ass titan was sticking out of the shield?

I assume you have logs that confirm this?

Edit: Also, for the record, I point and laugh at PL/NC. losses as much as I do for Goons. My badpoasting record speaks for itself, TYVM.
The video makes it pretty clear what was happening there. I'm sure it's been petitioned, and CCP can make the call for themselves based on the video and their server logs.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2014-04-14 21:09:36 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Only CCP knows what happened for sure, but after reading some of the replies I'mma going to guess that this was petitioned and is being brought to the General Drama forums only because CCPs answer was not well received.

Entirely possible. It doesn't make the video (and in particular its edit) any less suspect though.


Suspect, agreed.. It's too bad the (potentially) incriminating part seems to be missing.












While having that jump in footage would be hand we do infact have more than enough evidence just with ship speeds and diraction they are all moving.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2014-04-14 21:11:15 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Eh, whenever Titans are involved, everything is 1 cyno away from a major clusterfuck, especially given the alliances involved.

That risk is enough of an element of "heat", IMO.

Oh, sure, but that's more “heat of CAOD kugu” than “heat of battle”. P
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-04-14 21:11:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
So, we know for a fact then that an exploit was used, rather than say a part of a fat-ass titan was sticking out of the shield?
If it was just sticking out, they should have — and could have — killed it. For some odd reason, they didn't, most likely because they couldn't. If it wasn't already killable, then it was indeed an exploit.

That's a plausible supposition, but that's all it is: a supposition.

No Evidence to confirm it whatsoever. If the video in question showed that an exploit was used, well then all of the goonposters in this thread would have a very valid point. But the video doesn't show that, does it?

Also, if a Part of a titan is sticking out of a shield, and I bump the part that's sticking out, is that an exploit? I'm actually curious about this as I don't know the answer.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#76 - 2014-04-14 21:14:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Only CCP knows what happened for sure, but after reading some of the replies I'mma going to guess that this was petitioned and is being brought to the General Drama forums only because CCPs answer was not well received.

Entirely possible. It doesn't make the video (and in particular its edit) any less suspect though.


Suspect, agreed.. It's too bad the (potentially) incriminating part seems to be missing.




While having that jump in footage would be hand we do infact have more than enough evidence just with ship speeds and diraction they are all moving.


Maybe CCP will agree with you once they are done doing damage control for the WhiteWolf drama presently ensuing. That viddy was posted last month, so you would think they've had time to investigate if someone reported it.. especially given how verboten POS bowling is.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Generic5Guy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2014-04-14 21:15:47 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Also, if a Part of a titan is sticking out of a shield, and I bump the part that's sticking out, is that an exploit? I'm actually curious about this as I don't know the answer.


"Bumping ships, that are located within password protected starbase force-fields, out of the force-field from outside without having the correct password or corporation/alliance permissions as configured in the tower settings, is considered an exploit.

Attempts to bypass the game mechanics of starbase force-fields are fully visible in server logs to CCP Games’ staff and will result in appropriate action taken against the involved user accounts as per the EVE Online Suspension and Ban Policy from here on."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2014-04-14 21:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Also, if a Part of a titan is sticking out of a shield, and I bump the part that's sticking out, is that an exploit? I'm actually curious about this as I don't know the answer.

Weeeell… the wording in the usual CYA/GM-discretion style is “Bumping ships, that are located within password protected starbase force-fields, out of the force-field from outside without having the correct password or corporation/alliance permissions as configured in the tower settings, is considered an exploit” (emphasis mine).

Personally, I'd consider a ship that can't be targeted because the POS shield prohibits it as “located within” the shield. For most ships, that holds true, but the oversized collision spheres on top of the already oversized bodies of Titans make the mechanics diverge.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-04-14 21:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Thanks for the info.

Exploits are bad, and using them to kill ships is also bad. But that titan could have just as easily been bumped before it became untargettable. There's just no way to know, especially with the evidence provided.

IMO CCP shouldn't reimburse ships for what might have happened. That's just a bad road to follow (again IMO).
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-04-14 21:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Edited to follow discussion

Tippia wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Also, if a Part of a titan is sticking out of a shield, and I bump the part that's sticking out, is that an exploit? I'm actually curious about this as I don't know the answer.

Weeeell… the wording in the usual CYA/GM-discretion style is “Bumping ships, that are located within password protected starbase force-fields, out of the force-field from outside without having the correct password or corporation/alliance permissions as configured in the tower settings, is considered an exploit” (emphasis mine).

Personally, I'd consider a ship that can't be targeted because the POS shield prohibits it as “located within” the shield. For most ships, that holds true, but the oversized collision spheres on top of the already oversized bodies of Titans make the mechanics diverge.

I think this is grey area.

'located' is closer to 'bumpable' than to 'lockable'

CCP, your turn!

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"