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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#341 - 2014-04-14 20:03:13 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm somewhat surprised that no one's noticed that the Rattlesnake buff is clearly intended for rapid heavy missile launchers. The velocity bonus never applied, and a rate of fire actually decreases overall DPS with rapid launchers. An additional launcher and +50% damage thermal/kinetic damage bonus gives these a 7.5-launcher equivalent in most scenarios. To put this in perspective, the Rattlesnake has more potential DPS with rapid heavy launchers than a similarly-equipped Raven or Typhoon - and almost approaches a Navy Raven. And then the drone bonus.

I can hear my hopes of an actual missile faction sinking beneath the waves even as I type this. Why do I bother hoping that missiles will ever be more than a parlor trick in Eve?


How awesome would it be if the gila and snake both got secondary role bonus that reduced rapid launcher roload time to 20 seconds.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#342 - 2014-04-14 20:04:33 UTC
Changes all look great

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#343 - 2014-04-14 20:11:22 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Op+Falloff on T2 Bouncers is > 90km before skills. So half of the sentries can reach past the 85km allowed by a single T2 DLA.

With V skills a Curator is 52.5km/24km, Garde is 30km/12km and the Bouncer is 60km/24km - all of which fall under the 84km effective range with a single T2 DLA. Granted, this is before omni modules - but you won't be hitting anywhere the previous Rattlesnake distances with missiles, either. Dropping a launcher or utilizing rigs aren't attractive options, and neither is trading another mid or low slot to gain another utility high (especially since drone damage is now secondary). In fact, with the passive drone modules being released in the summer expansion you'll probably want every low slot for drone and ballistic modules. I guess a Black Eagle DLA gets you another +4km - but that's not really practical outside of high-sec PvE.

With such a huge damage buff, I'm pretty sure Rattlesnake owners can adapt...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#344 - 2014-04-14 20:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
I can hear my hopes of an actual missile faction sinking beneath the waves even as I type this. Why do I bother hoping that missiles will ever be more than a parlor trick in Eve?

Apparently we both tuned into the same bat channel…

MeBiatch wrote:
How awesome would it be if the gila and snake both got secondary role bonus that reduced rapid launcher roload time to 20 seconds.

You just want to see Caracal owners cry, don't you? Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#345 - 2014-04-14 20:20:37 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Jherik wrote:

im sure you just threw it together but god that fit is terrible


umm yup off the top of my head...

what would you change?

unless you mean it would cause terror for those who saw it come at them?


Please don't post good fits... Someone might nerf it!

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Sieonigh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#346 - 2014-04-14 20:21:29 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Op+Falloff on T2 Bouncers is > 90km before skills. So half of the sentries can reach past the 85km allowed by a single T2 DLA.

With V skills a Curator is 52.5km/24km, Garde is 30km/12km and the Bouncer is 60km/24km - all of which fall under the 84km effective range with a single T2 DLA. Granted, this is before omni modules - but you won't be hitting anywhere the previous Rattlesnake distances with missiles, either. Dropping a launcher or utilizing rigs aren't attractive options, and neither is trading another mid or low slot to gain another utility high (especially since drone damage is now secondary). In fact, with the passive drone modules being released in the summer expansion you'll probably want every low slot for drone and ballistic modules. I guess a Black Eagle DLA gets you another +4km - but that's not really practical outside of high-sec PvE.

With such a huge damage buff, I'm pretty sure Rattlesnake owners can adapt...


i would look at the drone changes on the dev blog, there is a spreadsheet you can DL
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#347 - 2014-04-14 20:21:39 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm somewhat surprised that no one's noticed that the Rattlesnake buff is clearly intended for rapid heavy missile launchers. The velocity bonus never applied, and a rate of fire actually decreases overall DPS with rapid launchers. An additional launcher and +50% damage thermal/kinetic damage bonus gives these a 7.5-launcher equivalent in most scenarios. To put this in perspective, the Rattlesnake has more potential DPS with rapid heavy launchers than a similarly-equipped Raven or Typhoon - and almost approaches a Navy Raven. And then the drone bonus.

I can hear my hopes of an actual missile faction sinking beneath the waves even as I type this. Why do I bother hoping that missiles will ever be more than a parlor trick in Eve?


How awesome would it be if the gila and snake both got secondary role bonus that reduced rapid launcher roload time to 20 seconds.


not awesome at all
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#348 - 2014-04-14 20:25:08 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Well this is extremely interesting on the RS front. The missile DPS increase is nice, though prior the drone side was where the DPS was most concentrated making the choice of which damage increasing mods to fit obvious. Need to play around with this to see what kind of real increase in damage potential including fitting is there.


back when i did havens my snake was fit with torps...

i wonder how much dps the torp/orge snake will do now...



1681 using navy torps, augmented ogres, and 3x each of BCS II and DDA II.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#349 - 2014-04-14 20:27:39 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Well this is extremely interesting on the RS front. The missile DPS increase is nice, though prior the drone side was where the DPS was most concentrated making the choice of which damage increasing mods to fit obvious. Need to play around with this to see what kind of real increase in damage potential including fitting is there.


back when i did havens my snake was fit with torps...

i wonder how much dps the torp/orge snake will do now...



3x each of BCS II and DDA II.


terrible fit
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#350 - 2014-04-14 20:28:30 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Well this is extremely interesting on the RS front. The missile DPS increase is nice, though prior the drone side was where the DPS was most concentrated making the choice of which damage increasing mods to fit obvious. Need to play around with this to see what kind of real increase in damage potential including fitting is there.


back when i did havens my snake was fit with torps...

i wonder how much dps the torp/orge snake will do now...



1681 using navy torps, augmented ogres, and 3x each of BCS II and DDA II.


its like a navy domi

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#351 - 2014-04-14 20:29:08 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I'm heading home - will check in again tomorrow morning.

I must say I didn't realize the magnitude of the turret asymmetry problem. Not sure what to say really, doubt it will change but I'll bring it up with some folks here tomorrow and get back to you.

If you drop it to 6 turrets, then no mid slot or low slot should be added.
The Mach is currently 1 slot higher than nearly all the other pirate BS. This should go away if they gain a larger DPS buff per turret & only 6 turrets. I.E. Turret Symmetry is fine, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to buff the mach with another slot & identical DPS.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#352 - 2014-04-14 20:32:25 UTC
Bhaalgorn has more shields than the Mach and the vindi .. a little odd if you ask me

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#353 - 2014-04-14 20:35:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Op+Falloff on T2 Bouncers is > 90km before skills. So half of the sentries can reach past the 85km allowed by a single T2 DLA.

With V skills a Curator is 52.5km/24km, Garde is 30km/12km and the Bouncer is 60km/24km - all of which fall under the 84km effective range with a single T2 DLA. Granted, this is before omni modules - but you won't be hitting anywhere the previous Rattlesnake distances with missiles, either. Dropping a launcher or utilizing rigs aren't attractive options, and neither is trading another mid or low slot to gain another utility high (especially since drone damage is now secondary). In fact, with the passive drone modules being released in the summer expansion you'll probably want every low slot for drone and ballistic modules. I guess a Black Eagle DLA gets you another +4km - but that's not really practical outside of high-sec PvE.

With such a huge damage buff, I'm pretty sure Rattlesnake owners can adapt...

Look at the changes to sentries coming at the same time:
T2 Bouncer 42km+48km
T2 Warden 60km+42km
This is before skills or Omni's
Also a cruise fit can hit just as well before as after at any rages you'd likely have your ship set up for.

Edit: Also, damage is more balanced, but not to the point of considering drone DPS secondary. Simply put, at the point where these changes kick in your statement is inaccurate regarding only Wardens reaching beyong Max skills + a T2 DLA. That has nothing to detract or add to adapting, but keeping all the changes in mind is important.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#354 - 2014-04-14 20:39:56 UTC
Great changes, Rise. Truly knocked it out of the park with the battleships.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#355 - 2014-04-14 20:45:11 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:


How awesome would it be if the gila and snake both got secondary role bonus that reduced rapid launcher roload time to 20 seconds.


not awesome at all


Why not?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#356 - 2014-04-14 20:46:27 UTC
any comment on the shield recharge rates?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2014-04-14 20:48:22 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Well this is extremely interesting on the RS front. The missile DPS increase is nice, though prior the drone side was where the DPS was most concentrated making the choice of which damage increasing mods to fit obvious. Need to play around with this to see what kind of real increase in damage potential including fitting is there.


back when i did havens my snake was fit with torps...

i wonder how much dps the torp/orge snake will do now...



3x each of BCS II and DDA II.


terrible fit

You have an alternate suggestion?
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#358 - 2014-04-14 20:48:38 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I'm heading home - will check in again tomorrow morning.

I must say I didn't realize the magnitude of the turret asymmetry problem. Not sure what to say really, doubt it will change but I'll bring it up with some folks here tomorrow and get back to you.


Don't worry about aesthetics. Turret asymmetry doesn't matter. It's all about making meaningful decision when fitting your ship, right? Is the extra DPS worth that unsightly asymmetry?

They're all big boys. They can handle it.

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Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#359 - 2014-04-14 20:49:56 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:
I for one will say I did a LOT of complaining over the faction cruiser changes.

But I will say that I LOVE the changes to the battleships. LOVE them. Well done. Don't say all I do is complain over the changes!





But please, dont kill the cynabal :)

Yeah, you can't accuse us of always complaining see Rise. We only complain when our complaints are steadily founded in reality (or at least the imagined reality in our heads)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#360 - 2014-04-14 20:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
MeBiatch wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:


How awesome would it be if the gila and snake both got secondary role bonus that reduced rapid launcher roload time to 20 seconds.


not awesome at all


Why not?

I have to admit that I would prefer any necessary fine tuning to be done to the launchers themselves, so that they are more useful over a wider range of ships, instead of just applying bonuses to a couple of rather expensive ships so that they alone can make effective use of them.

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