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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#321 - 2014-04-14 18:59:56 UTC
After looking some things over, my initial reaction of disgust has turned around, and I am somewhat pleased with how this has turned out, especially with the rattler which I am still scratching my head over.

Nightmare: 10% extra ab speed on top on the standard 20 is going to be awesome, especially considering how cheap domination ab's are. Good balance, and the extra low will come in handy for a multitude of roles.

Bhaal looks great; it will benefit immensely from the nos changes, and it looks like it got its cap and drones buffed a bit. Drones in particular look good now that it can field a full flight of sentries. +1

After some initial rage over the rattler being forced into grouped drone dps, I calmed down a bit and realized that not only does it have quite a lot of drone space left over even with 2 backups, it can fit a full compliment of mediums and lights. I still have some serious concerns about its drones space, but aside from that the extra dps from its missiles are going to be phenomenal. I just wish rapid heavies didn't have the burst mechanic, otherwise they'd be wonderful in a pvp setting with these. They still might be, we'll have to see.

Vindi looks good as always, extra cap and lock range will be nice.

Still disappointed with the mach. While not nerfing its fitting was a good idea, a weapon reduction and bonus increase would have been a good way to go. I am displeased at the lack of creativity on the angel line, and would have liked to see this happen with the macharial specifically:

Drop the number of guns to 5, change role bonus to 100% damage following dramiel line (same with the cynabal, except 3 guns). Drop 2 highs in favor of mid slots, so you have a 6/7/7 slot loadout. Former damage bonus for minmatar turns into a tracking speed bonus, which would be nice as currently no battleships exist with a large projectile tacking speed bonus, and it would make the mach extremely potent as a gunship.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#322 - 2014-04-14 19:02:07 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:

It's still going to be utter sh*t for pvp

cos perma-tanked super-sentries are completely useless.


I suppose I could see it being used as a super-sniper. The dps output is going to be absurd, and assuming its drones don't get jammed in a fight (TD'd by crucifier, sent etc) it might be fairly viable for bombardment at range. I guess after seeing some good points I'll reverse my opinion after being so jaded on the gila rebalance.


hopefully my sarcasm senses are giving a false positive here.


No; I was going into this excepting to have a bad opinion about the rattler changes. I am legitimately changing my opinion after looking over it and the other good points brought up in the thread more closely. Unlike a lot of people in this game, my opinion changes quite easily if good points are brought up.
Vadeim Rizen
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#323 - 2014-04-14 19:04:31 UTC
I for one will say I did a LOT of complaining over the faction cruiser changes.

But I will say that I LOVE the changes to the battleships. LOVE them. Well done. Don't say all I do is complain over the changes!





But please, dont kill the cynabal :)
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#324 - 2014-04-14 19:05:57 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
why do some have 19 slots and the mach/vindi has 20?


I believe because when the models were updated there wasn't room for the number of effective turrets needed so they were given less slots with larger role bonuses. The Rattlesnake has less because of drones. We talked about adjusting for them all to have the same number but we like where the balance is for them and didn't feel it was worth messing with just for the sake of making the slot count match.

Wouldn't be too hard to give the nightmare an extra high slot and some missile launchers. Sansha NPCs in-game all seem to have some launchers doing em damage, so it would be nice to see some in there as aux dps. To be fair, they all armor tank too, which actually is a bit more viable with the extra low slot.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2014-04-14 19:17:37 UTC
Well this is extremely interesting on the RS front. The missile DPS increase is nice, though prior the drone side was where the DPS was most concentrated making the choice of which damage increasing mods to fit obvious. Need to play around with this to see what kind of real increase in damage potential including fitting is there.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#326 - 2014-04-14 19:19:17 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Well this is extremely interesting on the RS front. The missile DPS increase is nice, though prior the drone side was where the DPS was most concentrated making the choice of which damage increasing mods to fit obvious. Need to play around with this to see what kind of real increase in damage potential including fitting is there.


back when i did havens my snake was fit with torps...

i wonder how much dps the torp/orge snake will do now...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2014-04-14 19:24:20 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Well this is extremely interesting on the RS front. The missile DPS increase is nice, though prior the drone side was where the DPS was most concentrated making the choice of which damage increasing mods to fit obvious. Need to play around with this to see what kind of real increase in damage potential including fitting is there.


back when i did havens my snake was fit with torps...

i wonder how much dps the torp/orge snake will do now...


Mine is currently cruise fit, and with the increase from 4 to 7.5 effective launchers it means some testing to see where a new balance falls will be needed. Fitting a 4th DDA over a BCU was a given but after the changes not so much. There is also some other splits to consider, TP's vs Omni's/DLA's comes to mind. Rigors got more attractive on the hull too.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#328 - 2014-04-14 19:34:37 UTC
I'm somewhat surprised that no one's noticed that the Rattlesnake buff is clearly intended for rapid heavy missile launchers. The velocity bonus never applied, and a rate of fire actually decreases overall DPS with rapid launchers. An additional launcher and +50% damage thermal/kinetic damage bonus gives these a 7.5-launcher equivalent in most scenarios. To put this in perspective, the Rattlesnake has more potential DPS with rapid heavy launchers than a similarly-equipped Raven or Typhoon - and almost approaches a Navy Raven. And then the drone bonus.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#329 - 2014-04-14 19:36:06 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Well this is extremely interesting on the RS front. The missile DPS increase is nice, though prior the drone side was where the DPS was most concentrated making the choice of which damage increasing mods to fit obvious. Need to play around with this to see what kind of real increase in damage potential including fitting is there.


back when i did havens my snake was fit with torps...

i wonder how much dps the torp/orge snake will do now...


Mine is currently cruise fit, and with the increase from 4 to 7.5 effective launchers it means some testing to see where a new balance falls will be needed. Fitting a 4th DDA over a BCU was a given but after the changes not so much. There is also some other splits to consider, TP's vs Omni's/DLA's comes to mind. Rigors got more attractive on the hull too.



Somehow, I just now realized that the snake only does 6.25% less missile DPS than a stock raven.
The current rattle does exactly half the missile dps of a Raven.
Granted the Raven has more range and does the same damage with all 4 damage types.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#330 - 2014-04-14 19:38:34 UTC
Thank you so much for not nerfing the mach all other changes seem fine.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#331 - 2014-04-14 19:41:47 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Mach still has more speed than bc's do why? also why so many lows slots?

Angels are still bland omni tanked .. hardly worth buying over minnie ships ... you;'re basically ignoring feedback here

sentries on Rattle really???? .... doesn't it defeat the point of the whole line moving away from gallente sentry overlaps????
Nightmare still only has 4 turrets seems very generous too me... 150% AB bonus seems a bit high

perhaps serpentis ships should lose some dronebay ... also vindi has tracking not falloff bonus consistency here is awful...


Completely disagree with everything you say.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#332 - 2014-04-14 19:44:28 UTC
Surprised nobody has mentioned this, but the Rattlesnake can't really take advantage of the 5th launcher--it needs two DLAs in the highs (for sentry usage) and is fairly tight on CPU anyway.

Another high (since it's down a slot anyway) and/or more CPU would be needed to properly take advantage of a 5th launcher.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#333 - 2014-04-14 19:46:24 UTC
I'm all for constructive feedback however it would be alot more accurate if we could actually get our hands on the ships but the amount of self entitlement in this thread is just astounding.

Oderint Dum Metuant

AleAlejandro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#334 - 2014-04-14 19:47:03 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
So does this still mean that Incursion fleets will not want Rattlesnakes? And honestly, why choose a Rattlesnake over a Domi? Wouldn't a Domi's application bonuses be superior for putting the dps down?


no, because a dominix's highslots don't really give you anything in silly pve, while a rattlesnake's highslots give you loads of damage. also just saying, pve should get no consideration when designing or balancing ships imo.


Too bad no one ever uses missiles in incursions, delayed damage and whatnot.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#335 - 2014-04-14 19:48:40 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Surprised nobody has mentioned this, but the Rattlesnake can't really take advantage of the 5th launcher--it needs two DLAs in the highs (for sentry usage) and is fairly tight on CPU anyway. Another high (since it's down a slot anyway) and/or more CPU would be needed to properly take advantage of a 5th launcher.

Why would you need more than one DLA? With a T2 DLA and IV skills you should be able to reach out to around 81km. Everything but Wardens will fall short of that anyway.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#336 - 2014-04-14 19:52:25 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm somewhat surprised that no one's noticed that the Rattlesnake buff is clearly intended for rapid heavy missile launchers. The velocity bonus never applied, and a rate of fire actually decreases overall DPS with rapid launchers. An additional launcher and +50% damage thermal/kinetic damage bonus gives these a 7.5-launcher equivalent in most scenarios. To put this in perspective, the Rattlesnake has more potential DPS with rapid heavy launchers than a similarly-equipped Raven or Typhoon - and almost approaches a Navy Raven. And then the drone bonus.


well rhmls are in a way Rise "child" so the fact that almost noone use them and that gila also looks built to fit those make you think if this was not intended...


but, with the current stats on heavy missile, most of your dmg never apply ; to apply most of the dps you will need your target so webbed/scramed that at that point you may be much better using torps...
so cruise missiles all the way
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#337 - 2014-04-14 19:53:58 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.


You're dumb, and you're the reason we get such ****** balance changes. Stop spreading stupidity.

U mad brah?
Crystal Chantreuse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#338 - 2014-04-14 19:55:07 UTC
As long as this doesn't result in my having to staff more janitors. It's hard enough to keep them as it is. Always running off because they can't handle the pressure. Hrmph. If they don't like being janitors, then they can go off to Stain and be cerebral slaves with the rest of the San--.. oh dear, forgive me, I'm babbling.

~Crystal Chantreuse, Janitorial Services Manager

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2014-04-14 19:56:10 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
Surprised nobody has mentioned this, but the Rattlesnake can't really take advantage of the 5th launcher--it needs two DLAs in the highs (for sentry usage) and is fairly tight on CPU anyway. Another high (since it's down a slot anyway) and/or more CPU would be needed to properly take advantage of a 5th launcher.

Why would you need more than one DLA? With a T2 DLA and IV skills you should be able to reach out to around 81km. Everything but Wardens will fall short of that anyway.
Op+Falloff on T2 Bouncers is > 90km before skills. So half of the sentries can reach past the 85km allowed by a single T2 DLA.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#340 - 2014-04-14 20:00:11 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm somewhat surprised that no one's noticed that the Rattlesnake buff is clearly intended for rapid heavy missile launchers. The velocity bonus never applied, and a rate of fire actually decreases overall DPS with rapid launchers. An additional launcher and +50% damage thermal/kinetic damage bonus gives these a 7.5-launcher equivalent in most scenarios. To put this in perspective, the Rattlesnake has more potential DPS with rapid heavy launchers than a similarly-equipped Raven or Typhoon - and almost approaches a Navy Raven. And then the drone bonus.

I can hear my hopes of an actual missile faction sinking beneath the waves even as I type this. Why do I bother hoping that missiles will ever be more than a parlor trick in Eve?