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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#261 - 2014-04-14 17:17:39 UTC
I'm really disappointed that you gave the Rattlesnake the same awkward bonus as the Worm / Gila. It's a drone based ship but at the same time it's really really different. People won't start suddenly using Rattlesnakes for PVP because you nerfed drone assist and then had a circlejerk over the fact that now Guristas ships (who in NPC don't have anything to do with drones), are geared to work with the new drone assist.

I had hoped you guys had more imagination.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#262 - 2014-04-14 17:17:57 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.

this is true


Actually completly false. If you cannot fit Vargur to tank more than Mach then yeah ... you are bad . YES include bastion. Because why not ?
And yeah projecting damage is same story - i also would like to add that Bastion save you from EWAR like TD/damp aswell.

Seriously i see no problem on line Mach/Vargur.

Vargur can shoot at longer ranges and tank WAY more. But is going to be slower/less agile/warps slower.

Working as intended.

I'm afraid you were just trying to get unjustified buff to Vargur out there... not a chance. Not even small.


Take a looks at the nightmare and vindi compared to thepally and kronos. Those marauders get clear projection advantages over their pirate counterparts. This isn't about a buff/nerf its about making increasing the number of differences between the hulls.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#263 - 2014-04-14 17:18:06 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I must say I didn't realize the magnitude of the turret asymmetry problem. Not sure what to say really, doubt it will change but I'll bring it up with some folks here tomorrow and get back to you.

If aesthetics weren't important, would we care about painting our ships?

• 7 turrets x 25% damage / .75 ROF = 11.66 effective turrets
• 6 turrets x 25% damage / .625 ROF = 12.00 effective turrets (2.9% increase)

The Machariel is primarily a shield-based ship, so it could stand to benefit from an extra mid slot at the expense of a spare high slot (this arrangement still leaves one utility high slot). And please un-nerf the agility changes.

mach was and still is 1 of the most flexible ship tank wise fixing it to just 1 type would feel like a nerf
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#264 - 2014-04-14 17:19:13 UTC
Alim Omaristos wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I'm heading home - will check in again tomorrow morning.

I must say I didn't realize the magnitude of the turret asymmetry problem. Not sure what to say really, doubt it will change but I'll bring it up with some folks here tomorrow and get back to you.

I'm just curious why does this bother people? Is it just the graphics or something more?


i know its not like there are 10's of ships in eve that bug me for there stupid wonky ways or the enyo's pointy lance.. that pissses me off more than turrets ... oh and the fact that some of these changes are just odd and inconsistent .. with blatant obvious things to change has been ignored..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#265 - 2014-04-14 17:20:11 UTC
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:
HAHAHA!
TIME FOR MACHARIEL NER-

oh wow that wasn't so bad

Thank you!Big smile


I was preparing to 'One-Man Revolution' the monument in Jita with my mach if they nerfed it too much but now I don't have to. Thank you CCP for saving me a cargohold full of tech1 ammo!
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#266 - 2014-04-14 17:22:18 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

The Machariel is primarily a shield-based ship



again with the opinions
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#267 - 2014-04-14 17:23:27 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
mach was and still is 1 of the most flexible ship tank wise fixing it to just 1 type would feel like a nerf

Gaining a mid is actually good for an armor Mach, as you can run more capacitor or tracking in the mids instead of the lows.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#268 - 2014-04-14 17:26:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
CCP Rise wrote:
RATTLESNAKE

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)

Maybe I'm missing something, but you are reducing to two heavy / sentry drones.

Why? [Drone assist cap?]

To me this is a nerf, as instead of recalling one drone that is being attacked and losing 20% damage, now we lose 50%.
AleAlejandro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2014-04-14 17:27:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
AleAlejandro wrote:
Straight up buff to the NM <3


Shield incursion runners are dancing in the streets.
Armour incursion runners are now looking at dumping any laser boat but the Nightmare.


God I remember the days when I used to logi with you, those were the days...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#270 - 2014-04-14 17:29:26 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
RATTLESNAKE

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)

Maybe I'm missing something, but you are reducing to two heavy / sentry drones.

Why?

To me this is a nerf, as instead of recalling one drone that is being attacked and losing 1/5 damage, now we lose 50%.


Read the "and hitpoints" thing.

It's not a nerf, the Rattlesnake is going to be able to put more than 1400 dps on a target at an enormous range.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Gosti Kahanid
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#271 - 2014-04-14 17:29:49 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
RATTLESNAKE

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)

Maybe I'm missing something, but you are reducing to two heavy / sentry drones.

Why?

To me this is a nerf, as instead of recalling one drone that is being attacked and losing 1/5 damage, now we lose 50%.


Look at it from the other side. Instead of only 1/5 of your drones, you can now repair 1/2 of your drones with a single RR and don´t have to retraw. Also they can now whitstand more damage before the die, so more time to react
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#272 - 2014-04-14 17:30:54 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
RATTLESNAKE

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)

Maybe I'm missing something, but you are reducing to two heavy / sentry drones.

Why?

To me this is a nerf, as instead of recalling one drone that is being attacked and losing 1/5 damage, now we lose 50%.


Read the "and hitpoints" thing.

It's not a nerf, the Rattlesnake is going to be able to put more than 1400 dps on a target at an enormous range.


In other words, the Rattlesnake is becoming (for the 1st time) a Pirate Battleship lol.
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#273 - 2014-04-14 17:34:16 UTC
Of course I'm going to nitpick ,though.

Re: Nightmare, I don't think it would be bad to give it a lower base sig. Right now it sits at 395 (370+25 from an LSE, which it will likely need to tank). This places it in the realm of the highest sig for the tracking-style battleships.

Fleet Phoon has an absurdly low 320m sig on an armor-tanking platform. 350 (adjusted to 375 with an LSE) places the Nightmare in the same realm as the Napoc and Apoc (370m and 380m, respectively). Ships like the Apoc get similar concessions for agility (15.5 on Navy Apoc, 16 on base Apoc) for fitting plates.

~
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#274 - 2014-04-14 17:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
mach was and still is 1 of the most flexible ship tank wise fixing it to just 1 type would feel like a nerf

Gaining a mid is actually good for an armor Mach, as you can run more capacitor or tracking in the mids instead of the lows.

same can be told about an extral low - but lets be realistic the chances that mach get 1 of those are pretty low
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#275 - 2014-04-14 17:34:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
RATTLESNAKE

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)

Maybe I'm missing something, but you are reducing to two heavy / sentry drones.

Why?

To me this is a nerf, as instead of recalling one drone that is being attacked and losing 1/5 damage, now we lose 50%.


Read the "and hitpoints" thing.

It's not a nerf, the Rattlesnake is going to be able to put more than 1400 dps on a target at an enormous range.


In other words, the Rattlesnake is becoming (for the 1st time) a Pirate Battleship lol.


It's also becoming what turned out to be an excellent investment opportunity. I talked myself into a couple of them once I saw the Worm changes.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#276 - 2014-04-14 17:34:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Read the "and hitpoints" thing.

It's not a nerf, the Rattlesnake is going to be able to put more than 1400 dps on a target at an enormous range.


In other words, the Rattlesnake is becoming (for the 1st time) a Pirate Battleship lol.

Saw and noted the HP increase.

Guess I'll have to see how it is on SiSi. I own 3 Rattlesnakes; none of them have missiles.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#277 - 2014-04-14 17:35:06 UTC
AleAlejandro wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
AleAlejandro wrote:
Straight up buff to the NM <3


Shield incursion runners are dancing in the streets.
Armour incursion runners are now looking at dumping any laser boat but the Nightmare.


God I remember the days when I used to logi with you, those were the days...

that sounded dirtyShockedBlink

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#278 - 2014-04-14 17:40:45 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Read the "and hitpoints" thing.

It's not a nerf, the Rattlesnake is going to be able to put more than 1400 dps on a target at an enormous range.


In other words, the Rattlesnake is becoming (for the 1st time) a Pirate Battleship lol.

Saw and noted the HP increase.

Guess I'll have to see how it is on SiSi. I own 3 Rattlesnakes; none of them have missiles.


I make it that sentries on an unrigged Rattlesnake will have 21k EHP. Heavies will have 9-13k EHP. Not sure if drone HP are being changed though, that's using old data.
Mardus Rial
Mercurial Messenger Service
#279 - 2014-04-14 17:43:02 UTC
RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

Way to nerf the Rattlesnake into a useless piece of trash. **** you CCP.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#280 - 2014-04-14 17:43:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Mardus Rial wrote:

Way to nerf the Rattlesnake into a useless piece of trash. **** you CCP.

<----

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=