These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#241 - 2014-04-14 16:54:15 UTC
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#242 - 2014-04-14 16:56:20 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that the rattlesnake stays at 7.5 effective drones, though 375% of a heavy drone is pretty nasty. I can understand the reasoning with sentries included, since anything bigger would have just wiped everything off grid.

Hooray for the extra launcher and damage bonus to missiles, that should improve it's presence some.


but less range on them - the velocity bonus is gone.

and once again, the versatility of 5 utility/support drones is GONE

275% of 2 is not 7.5, it's 5.5



No it is 7.5

100% = 4;
200% = 6;
300% = 8;

Also, Range bonus + tank bonus is dumb. I wish they would remove it on the Eagle, vulture, rohk line up and add something useful.

Range bonus plus tank works well when you are using short range weapons.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#243 - 2014-04-14 16:57:14 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.

this is true

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Alim Omaristos
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#244 - 2014-04-14 16:58:17 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.

I hadn't really thought about this and dont' have the numbers infront of me but this is something that should be thought about.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#245 - 2014-04-14 16:59:41 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.
Show me where the machariel has the tracking bonus of the vargur and the range bonus from the bastion module...

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#246 - 2014-04-14 17:00:37 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Finally we get to the battleships!

This class is by far the most healthy of the three and so we aren't making as many big changes as we did with the frigates and cruisers. We are extending all of the new faction theme elements up to the battleships, which should range from having minimal impact to being a pretty significant buff.

Here's the details (if you see something that seems really weird, it may be a mistake/typo so just let me know and I'll check it out):

NIGHTMARE

Amarr Battleship Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
30% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)
NOTE: it's been requested that I point here that this is the same total damage bonus as the ship had prior to the change. (1.25 (25% bonus) * 2.00 (100% bonus) = 2.50 (150% bonus))


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L(+1); 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 14500 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 10550(+815) / 8650(-45) / 8200(-60)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 6950 / 1154000ms(-875) / 6.0
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 114(+20) / .122(-.014) / 99300000 / 17.76s(-1.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets):80km / 110(+10) / 7
Sensor strength: 28
Signature radius: 370(-30)


Rise, would it be feasible to add a fifth gun to the Nightmare and keep the 100% damage bonus with PG, CPU, cap and possibly the number of high slots adjusted to compensate for that?

(I just like my ships with as many guns as possible, that's why I'm asking...)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#247 - 2014-04-14 17:00:51 UTC
Alim Omaristos wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.

I hadn't really thought about this and dont' have the numbers infront of me but this is something that should be thought about.


bastion module is the answer...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#248 - 2014-04-14 17:01:16 UTC
Mr Ignitious wrote:
Sintiar Loffwagea wrote:


7.5 effective drone as before. formula before balance 5*50% = 7.5 (5*1.25) / new 2*275% = 7.5 (2*3.75)


But that's ONLY true for heavies and sentries. It's now worse with mediums and lights. Heavies won't get used because heavies suck (they are too slow and have poor tracking - even with proposed changes) and sentries are only put to good use from domi's and ishtars.

People also keep losing their **** over the missile damage it's getting now. They're missiles, creating an environment where a torp will hit for full damage is about as difficult as it is to get a dread to hit for full. This rattlesnake may have great paper dps, but in practice it's going to be ****.


Elite frigs will dance around it, and nothing can be done.
Welcome to the world of the Gila. There is always room for more people who PvE and got screwed.
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#249 - 2014-04-14 17:01:24 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.


You're dumb, and you're the reason we get such ****** balance changes. Stop spreading stupidity.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#250 - 2014-04-14 17:03:12 UTC
Reppyk wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.
Show me where the machariel has the tracking bonus of the vargur and the range bonus from the bastion module...


Show me where a tracking advantage was ever promised to distinguish the ship, or where the mach's dps advantage can't overshadow bastion's projection bonus.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#251 - 2014-04-14 17:03:15 UTC
I'm heading home - will check in again tomorrow morning.

I must say I didn't realize the magnitude of the turret asymmetry problem. Not sure what to say really, doubt it will change but I'll bring it up with some folks here tomorrow and get back to you.

@ccp_rise
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#252 - 2014-04-14 17:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mr Ignitious wrote:
Sintiar Loffwagea wrote:


7.5 effective drone as before. formula before balance 5*50% = 7.5 (5*1.25) / new 2*275% = 7.5 (2*3.75)


But that's ONLY true for heavies and sentries. It's now worse with mediums and lights. Heavies won't get used because heavies suck (they are too slow and have poor tracking - even with proposed changes) and sentries are only put to good use from domi's and ishtars.

People also keep losing their **** over the missile damage it's getting now. They're missiles, creating an environment where a torp will hit for full damage is about as difficult as it is to get a dread to hit for full. This rattlesnake may have great paper dps, but in practice it's going to be ****.


Elite frigs will dance around it, and nothing can be done.
Welcome to the world of the Gila. There is always room for more people who PvE and got screwed.


You mean the elite frigs that will pop to the 5 launchers worth of bonused precision crusies backed up by a TB and 5 light drones?

That is of course for peopel not smart enough to just MJD away and pop them with sentries as they approach.

I'm serious in asking this: Do you PVE at all?
Ashley Animus
7th Temporal Lounge
#253 - 2014-04-14 17:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashley Animus
CCP Rise wrote:
I'm heading home - will check in again tomorrow morning.

I must say I didn't realize the magnitude of the turret asymmetry problem. Not sure what to say really, doubt it will change but I'll bring it up with some folks here tomorrow and get back to you.


And please consider giving the Rattlesnake the super drones that everyone likes on the Worm and Gila. It is going too much in the direction of missiles. Missiles should probably be used as a replacement for losing the ability to field light drones effectivly.
Alim Omaristos
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2014-04-14 17:09:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I'm heading home - will check in again tomorrow morning.

I must say I didn't realize the magnitude of the turret asymmetry problem. Not sure what to say really, doubt it will change but I'll bring it up with some folks here tomorrow and get back to you.

I'm just curious why does this bother people? Is it just the graphics or something more?
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#255 - 2014-04-14 17:10:40 UTC
The Dream lives.

~
Naomi Anthar
#256 - 2014-04-14 17:11:01 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.

this is true


Actually completly false. If you cannot fit Vargur to tank more than Mach then yeah ... you are bad . YES include bastion. Because why not ?
And yeah projecting damage is same story - i also would like to add that Bastion save you from EWAR like TD/damp aswell.

Seriously i see no problem on line Mach/Vargur.

Vargur can shoot at longer ranges and tank WAY more. But is going to be slower/less agile/warps slower.

Working as intended.

I'm afraid you were just trying to get unjustified buff to Vargur out there... not a chance. Not even small.
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2014-04-14 17:14:36 UTC
HAHAHA!
TIME FOR MACHARIEL NER-

oh wow that wasn't so bad

Thank you!Big smile
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#258 - 2014-04-14 17:15:00 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I must say I didn't realize the magnitude of the turret asymmetry problem. Not sure what to say really, doubt it will change but I'll bring it up with some folks here tomorrow and get back to you.

If aesthetics weren't important, would we care about painting our ships?

• 7 turrets x 25% damage / .75 ROF = 11.66 effective turrets
• 6 turrets x 25% damage / .625 ROF = 12.00 effective turrets (2.9% increase)

The Machariel is primarily a shield-based ship, so it could stand to benefit from an extra mid slot at the expense of a spare high slot (this arrangement still leaves one utility high slot). And please un-nerf the agility changes.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#259 - 2014-04-14 17:15:03 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Mach steps on the vargur's toes too much IMO.

In the marauder rebalancing thread, we were told that compared to pirates, marauders would have a better tank and project dmg better, while pirates were faster and had higher dps

Why does the mach keep a f/o bonus matching the vargur while maintaining its speed and dps advantages.

this is true


Actually completly false. If you cannot fit Vargur to tank more than Mach then yeah ... you are bad . YES include bastion. Because why not ?
And yeah projecting damage is same story - i also would like to add that Bastion save you from EWAR like TD/damp aswell.

Seriously i see no problem on line Mach/Vargur.

Vargur can shoot at longer ranges and tank WAY more. But is going to be slower/less agile/warps slower.

Working as intended.

I'm afraid you were just trying to get unjustified buff to Vargur out there... not a chance. Not even small.

to clarify ^^

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Sentenced 1989
#260 - 2014-04-14 17:16:19 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:

I'm afraid you were just trying to get unjustified buff to Vargur out there... not a chance. Not even small.


Yep, same here, i've flown nothing but mach for 2 years in PVE and I haven't undocked it after marauder changes. You simply can't ignore the fact that Vargur can't be messed around with tracking disruption, damps or jams and it can tank the same, fit an MWD between bastion and does like 100 less damage in total maybe on paper, but in reality beats my machariel times hands down.

So right now I would say the line is fine between pirate ships and marauders, Marauders are station platforms, do the job much better, pirate ships are more fun and can do the job as good as marauder if you take ewar out.

The Incursion Guild

Epic Arc Guide