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NEWS - ISHUKONE ADMINISTRATORS ANNOUNCE ARCURIO TAKEOVER BID

Author
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#61 - 2014-04-12 23:37:16 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.


That's a pretty Gallentean thing to say...


I would only agree to a point. It is far more Gallentean to defend individual liberty rather than that of a collective.


But I would think we can both agree that the government stealing the savings, benefits and retirement pay of honest workers is a bad thing, no? I do find it interesting that the harder Ms Kim cries for the destruction of the Federation, the more she suggests paths that would destroy the State.

Irony.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#62 - 2014-04-13 00:49:28 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
They won't after they will be nationalized.

What? I don't know how you can say this, Diana.

There have been Caldari who are Liberals, Caldari who are Patriots, Caldari who are Practicals. There have been Caldari who want peace and Caldari who want war. We've had warlords and philosophers, artists and brutes, traitors and heroes, who have all shaped the meaning of what it is to be Caldari. And we've all agreed on one point.

That which you earn is yours, and you have no rights to the earnings of another. Take them by force if you must, but that's the only claim you can make on the earnings of others.

The concept of nationalization is a wholly foreign concept, and I'm shocked that you, of all people, would advocate it.

Scherezad-haani, I'm earnestly confused as to why you would be surprised to hear an idiot say something idiotic. We've all learned by now that she'll say anything, be it propaganda, farce, or outright lie, in order to sound correct in her own mind. This is a remnant who'se era has passed, and is best left to argue with a mirror.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#63 - 2014-04-13 02:24:08 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.

And this is why the state must be destroyed.Roll

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#64 - 2014-04-13 02:27:39 UTC
Heh. Nice, Osyn. Lol
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#65 - 2014-04-14 11:21:51 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
They won't after they will be nationalized.

What? I don't know how you can say this, Diana.

There have been Caldari who are Liberals, Caldari who are Patriots, Caldari who are Practicals. There have been Caldari who want peace and Caldari who want war. We've had warlords and philosophers, artists and brutes, traitors and heroes, who have all shaped the meaning of what it is to be Caldari. And we've all agreed on one point.

That which you earn is yours, and you have no rights to the earnings of another. Take them by force if you must, but that's the only claim you can make on the earnings of others.

The concept of nationalization is a wholly foreign concept, and I'm shocked that you, of all people, would advocate it.


Given that nationalization was, effectively, the Provist agenda I really can't say I'm shocked, nor surprised.

Kim doesn't understand what being Caldari means. She never has. Her whole thing has been "for make benefit glorious leader!": the dissolution of our capitalist State and the imposition of an immense, bureacratic, socialist dictatorship. Worse, she actively makes the laughable accusation that anybody who does not share this vision are traitors and Federation sympathizers.

You're entirely right that this is a shocking attitude, but given that it was apparently shared by the entire CPD, are you really sure you don't know how she can say that? the whole movement from the moment Heth ascended from the mud on the wings of a massive investment fraud was about grabbing and consolidating power in a way totally foreign to Caldari ideals. Let's not be surprised when one of the few remaining people stupid and stubborn enough to continue to embrace that philosophy actually repeats it.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-04-14 13:06:28 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
They won't after they will be nationalized.

What? I don't know how you can say this, Diana.

There have been Caldari who are Liberals, Caldari who are Patriots, Caldari who are Practicals. There have been Caldari who want peace and Caldari who want war. We've had warlords and philosophers, artists and brutes, traitors and heroes, who have all shaped the meaning of what it is to be Caldari. And we've all agreed on one point.

That which you earn is yours, and you have no rights to the earnings of another. Take them by force if you must, but that's the only claim you can make on the earnings of others.

The concept of nationalization is a wholly foreign concept, and I'm shocked that you, of all people, would advocate it.

There are Caldari, who are just Caldari. We all have our professions, specializations, fields of expertise, different skills, abilities, genome. But we all share Caldari blood and Caldari ideals, and the main of them is Heiian.
We risk our lives, and we work for the good of many, but not for the sake of pity selves, like individualistic gallenteans do.

We have adopted idea of corporations, because they allow us to be more efficient. It is not what define Caldari. It is our ability to evolve and choose what is best for us. Just like we threw that democracy away, because it was inefficient and hurting for our society, hindering our progress.

But for now, it is corporations that start to hinder us. They separate us to conflicting entities, some of which, like Ishukone corporation, are balancing on the edge of treason, abandoning common effort of all other Caldari for their petty interests.

Nationalization is the Ultimate Heiian, when we willingly submit our own earnings for benefit of us whole. Because together we are stronger. Corporations have done an excellent job of making us stronger, while gallenteans were in slumber, we were fighting between each other, training ourselves.

But now the war has started again, we have external enemy, that wishes to exterminate us. The enemy, who doesn't respect our history and culture. Infighting now don't make us stronger anymore, they make us weaker in front of inhuman gallentean monstrosity called Federation.

In order to defeat them and survive, to create a future for Caldari children, we have to cast away conflicts and infighting, we must stand together, as one nation and as one State. Only this way we can overpower gallentean war machine and throw them back to their hiding holes.

Our enemies are not workers of other corporations, who might sell good cheaper than you, or make better products. Our enemies are out there, behind the border, in Villore.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#67 - 2014-04-14 13:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
Stitcher wrote:

Kim doesn't understand what being Caldari means. She never has. Her whole thing has been "for make benefit glorious leader!": the dissolution of our capitalist State and the imposition of an immense, bureacratic, socialist dictatorship. Worse, she actively makes the laughable accusation that anybody who does not share this vision are traitors and Federation sympathizers.

Some people enjoy building stuff.
Some people dedicate their lives to protect others.
And some people, like Stitcher, appear only to insult and lie about others.

To each their own.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#68 - 2014-04-14 13:57:20 UTC
Ah, yes. Thanks. I'd forgotten. Traitors, Federation sympathizers and liars.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#69 - 2014-04-14 16:08:38 UTC
Now, now. Diana Kim is a citizen in good standing (although of no Megacorporation) and therefore has as much right to her opinion on the best future course of the State as anybody else.

Her ideas, of course, must be market-tested in the marketplace of ideas before they could be considered to be proven. Caldari experiments with centralisation have not been kind to the State to date, it would appear that the tide of opinion is against her.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#70 - 2014-04-14 16:54:59 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Now, now. Diana Kim is a citizen in good standing (although of no Megacorporation) and therefore has as much right to her opinion on the best future course of the State as anybody else.

Her ideas, of course, must be market-tested in the marketplace of ideas before they could be considered to be proven. Caldari experiments with centralisation have not been kind to the State to date, it would appear that the tide of opinion is against her.


Exactly how thorough does this intellectual market-testing need to be before the idea can be safely discarded, and before those who continue to promote it can be legitimately accused of having the mental agility of a large fedo in a small bag?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#71 - 2014-04-14 17:11:45 UTC
And now I really feel like I need to get my hands on Stitcher's frozen corpse to see, if he indeed has fedo instead of brain.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#72 - 2014-04-14 17:14:01 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Now, now. Diana Kim is a citizen in good standing (although of no Megacorporation) and therefore has as much right to her opinion on the best future course of the State as anybody else.

Her ideas, of course, must be market-tested in the marketplace of ideas before they could be considered to be proven. Caldari experiments with centralisation have not been kind to the State to date, it would appear that the tide of opinion is against her.


Exactly how thorough does this intellectual market-testing need to be before the idea can be safely discarded, and before those who continue to promote it can be legitimately accused of having the mental agility of a large fedo in a small bag?


You're a scientist aren't you, man? The testing never stops.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-04-14 22:10:27 UTC
A scientist will not test their vaccine by having it delivered to every hospital. A scientist will not test a new power system by plugging it directly into the grid.

Nationalization has failed everywhere its been tried, even in the Federation. If Diana Kim truly wants to test her economic theories, she will have to start on a smaller scale.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#74 - 2014-04-15 04:30:06 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Now, now. Diana Kim is a citizen in good standing (although of no Megacorporation) and therefore has as much right to her opinion on the best future course of the State as anybody else.

Her ideas, of course, must be market-tested in the marketplace of ideas before they could be considered to be proven. Caldari experiments with centralisation have not been kind to the State to date, it would appear that the tide of opinion is against her.


Exactly how thorough does this intellectual market-testing need to be before the idea can be safely discarded, and before those who continue to promote it can be legitimately accused of having the mental agility of a large fedo in a small bag?


You're a scientist aren't you, man? The testing never stops.

As always, kirjuun, I have to admire your dedication. As someone who was made to deal with the "idea market", a hard line exists that defines a good method from a bad one... In short, when a method continually fails, further testing is normally suspended in favor of more viable ideas.

Still, you make a good point in as much as we should never stop looking for that better method. I just think this one has been debunked... Unless we count entertainment value in some circles. Blink

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2014-04-15 07:55:10 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Now, now. Diana Kim is a citizen in good standing (although of no Megacorporation) and therefore has as much right to her opinion on the best future course of the State as anybody else.

Her ideas, of course, must be market-tested in the marketplace of ideas before they could be considered to be proven. Caldari experiments with centralisation have not been kind to the State to date, it would appear that the tide of opinion is against her.

There's this bewildering statement that I see from Caldari on a regular basis when it comes to people such as Diana Kim, which reads something along the line of "I admire your dedication, but..." or "We are both citizens of the Caldari State, and so I respect your opinion, but..."

There really is nothing inherently respectable about fanatical dedication to a cause, especially when that fanaticism destroys the capacity for rational thought and encourages erratic and dangerous behaviour. Furthermore, there is nothing respectable about fanatical dedication to a cause that has repeatedly proved to act towards the detriment of the State - indeed, such fanaticism is and should be a cause for concern. Additionally I cannot help but notice that such platitudes are rarely afforded to those who follow paths that have nothing to do with the State - there is a notable dearth of people respecting TSF's fanatical dedication to Sansha's Nation (not that I'm complaining, you understand) or the fanatical dedication to U-Nat principles that occasionally crops up among Federal capsuleers.

I feel that "I admire your dedication, but..." and similar statements are merely a cop-out on the part of those Caldari voicing them to avoid having to acknowledge that Diana Kim and people like her are very much the State's problem, that it created and it must now deal with. The Federation is quite willing to shoot these psychopaths when they crop up in our territory, but the simple, sad fact is that these people are your problem. They seized control of the political machinery of your nation. They co-opted the naval forces of your nation, and began a war with the Federation. They co-operated with the Templis Dragonaurs, a known and despised terrorist organisation. They repeatedly stamped on the very meritocracy that they had justified their coup by promising to restore. They attempted to nationalise your corporations. They ordered the absolute destruction of your homeworld, and then murdered Admiral Visera Yanala for refusing to carry it out. When the CEP called them to account, they refused to answer. When the CEP told them to stand down, they refused to stop.

Now, having been removed from power, the Provists are stealing your nation's equipment for their own end. They have become such a threat to the State, in fact, that the Caldari Navy is willing to fork out truly ridiculous bounties just to see them dealt with.

At what point does dedication to a cause which is now actively and openly working against the interests of your nation no longer find itself worthy of your respect? Because for any sane person, that line should have been crossed a very, very long time ago.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-04-15 08:29:22 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Now, now. Diana Kim is a citizen in good standing (although of no Megacorporation) and therefore has as much right to her opinion on the best future course of the State as anybody else.

Her ideas, of course, must be market-tested in the marketplace of ideas before they could be considered to be proven. Caldari experiments with centralisation have not been kind to the State to date, it would appear that the tide of opinion is against her.

There's this bewildering statement that I see from Caldari on a regular basis when it comes to people such as Diana Kim, which reads something along the line of "I admire your dedication, but..." or "We are both citizens of the Caldari State, and so I respect your opinion, but..."

There really is nothing inherently respectable about fanatical dedication to a cause, especially when that fanaticism destroys the capacity for rational thought and encourages erratic and dangerous behaviour. Furthermore, there is nothing respectable about fanatical dedication to a cause that has repeatedly proved to act towards the detriment of the State - indeed, such fanaticism is and should be a cause for concern. Additionally I cannot help but notice that such platitudes are rarely afforded to those who follow paths that have nothing to do with the State - there is a notable dearth of people respecting TSF's fanatical dedication to Sansha's Nation (not that I'm complaining, you understand) or the fanatical dedication to U-Nat principles that occasionally crops up among Federal capsuleers.

I feel that "I admire your dedication, but..." and similar statements are merely a cop-out on the part of those Caldari voicing them to avoid having to acknowledge that Diana Kim and people like her are very much the State's problem, that it created and it must now deal with. The Federation is quite willing to shoot these psychopaths when they crop up in our territory, but the simple, sad fact is that these people are your problem. They seized control of the political machinery of your nation. They co-opted the naval forces of your nation, and began a war with the Federation. They co-operated with the Templis Dragonaurs, a known and despised terrorist organisation. They repeatedly stamped on the very meritocracy that they had justified their coup by promising to restore. They attempted to nationalise your corporations. They ordered the absolute destruction of your homeworld, and then murdered Admiral Visera Yanala for refusing to carry it out. When the CEP called them to account, they refused to answer. When the CEP told them to stand down, they refused to stop.

Now, having been removed from power, the Provists are stealing your nation's equipment for their own end. They have become such a threat to the State, in fact, that the Caldari Navy is willing to fork out truly ridiculous bounties just to see them dealt with.

At what point does dedication to a cause which is now actively and openly working against the interests of your nation no longer find itself worthy of your respect? Because for any sane person, that line should have been crossed a very, very long time ago.

I see that insane gallentean kid is still spitting his groundless insults and lies with foam at the mouth.
Did it hurt that much, eh?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-04-15 08:52:56 UTC
Okay, to prevent readers from swallowing gallentean propaganda without thinking, I'll remind them the alternative:

1. Gallenteans think, that by performing our duties, we are "fanatics" or something like that. Counterwise. We sacrifice our lives for our citizens and for our society, not for ridiculous and destructive ideals like "democracy", that gallentean brainwashed troops die for. We fight for each other, because Caldari State is Caldari people. We fight for the future of Caldari children. We understand why we fight and what for. Gallentean greed and hatred simply blinds them. They can't see what we do, they can't understand us, or they just don't want. It were gallentean fanatics, who rammed Malkalen station. It were gallentean fanatics, who lured our titan and made it fall on inhabited planet. And it were gallentean fanatics, screaming "Exterminate Caldari", right before the war has started and we moved in to protect Caldari, trapped in treacherous Federation, and get our home back.
Unlike gallenteans, we fight not fanatically, but professionally.

2. Only complete idiots would call Dragonaurs terrorists. Their last terror act was committed about 200 years ago, and those, who participated in it, died long ago.

3. Despising Dragonaurs is what gallentean kakku and traitors would do. They are just guerilla fighters and patriots. Hatred towards them is a projection of gallentean hatred to Caldari people, history and ideals. Those Caldari, who would fall for it, are either completely dumb, or venal traitors.

4. During short, but glorious time of Tibus Heth, in fact, it were dragonaurs, who were helping to enforce meritocratic principles in the State.

5. Nobody ever ordered destruction of our whole homeworld. There was an order to destroy gallentean niduses on our homeworld, as far as I understand. Claim that Caldari would destroy our homeworld or spill blood of Caldari peoples there, is a ridiculous devious gallentean propaganda. Only gallenteans could do such atrocity. And they did, by downing the titan on our planet. It is gallentean ideal to "Exterminate Caldari".

6. The CPD is disbanded. Ship theft is ship theft, those, who commit it, become gurista. One cannot be a provist without being a member of CPD. I would ask people to not listen to those, who tarnish good name of Caldari patriots and best citizens with this ridiculous ship theft.

Thanks!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-04-15 08:52:58 UTC
Not as much as it must have hurt getting banned from the Summit. Lol

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-04-15 09:10:18 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Okay, to prevent readers from swallowing gallentean propaganda without thinking, I'll remind them the alternative:

You do realise that quite literally no-one other than people who already believe the same things you do (which, on the IGS, is quite literally two other people, namely Ichinumi Tsukaya and TomHorn) are actually going to be swayed by your opinions, right?

You couch your rhetoric in such objectionable terms that you drive away the very Caldari you're trying to convince of your cause. "Gallentean propaganda" isn't what's getting in your way, it's your inability to argue in a rational manner.

Diana Kim wrote:
2. Only complete idiots would call Dragonaurs terrorists.

3. Despising Dragonaurs is what gallentean kakku and traitors would do. They are just guerilla fighters and patriots. Hatred towards them is a projection of gallentean hatred to Caldari people, history and ideals. Those Caldari, who would fall for it, are either completely dumb, or venal traitors.

Then the list of "complete idiots," "completely dumb" or "venal traitors" in your opinion covers the entire CEP, since they officially reaffirmed the position of the Dragonaurs as terrorists. It also covers the Caldari Navy, who operate under directive from the CEP,

Diana Kim wrote:
5. Nobody ever ordered destruction of our whole homeworld.

Heth very explicitly ordered the deployment of Oblivion on Caldari Prime. The deployment of a Doomsday Device against an inhabited planet has only been observed once before, when a Judgement-class device was used against the planet of Reschard V. It completely destroyed the planet's biosphere and wiped out nearly 98% of its inhabitants. All estimations and simulations of the deployment of a Doomsday Device against a planet before or since have indicated the same outcome - Game Over.

But all this was a little before your time. I shouldn't expect you to know that.

Diana Kim wrote:
6. The CPD is disbanded. Ship theft is ship theft, those, who commit it, become gurista. One cannot be a provist without being a member of CPD. I would ask people to not listen to those, who tarnish good name of Caldari patriots and best citizens with this ridiculous ship theft.

The CPD and its command structure - Heth in particular - never acknowledged the order of dissolution. In point of fact, a large number of Provist ships, under the escort of the Templis Dragonaurs, attempted to flee from the Caldari Constructions orbital in Haatomo after illegally commandeering it and refusing to stand down and submit to orders from the Caldari Navy and the CEP. Although a large number of individuals and departments associated with it voluntarily relinquished membership, its command structure continued to do what it has done since its inception - maliciously attempt to co-opt State resources for their own purposes.

I don't know why you even bother writing these, Kim. You aren't convincing anyone.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-04-15 11:46:18 UTC  |  Edited by: wilgotna
i dont know whats going on here but im pretty sure diana is right.